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I think they've always mistakenly focused on headlight brightness (using wattage as a proxy), but the focus should really be on beam shaping and optics quality.

by _yb2s 2y ago

I think they've always mistakenly focused on headlight brightness (using wattage as a proxy), but the focus should really be on beam shaping and optics quality. Most cars sold in Europe have had much brighter lights than the same models sold in the USA since the 70s and 80s, yet by using better optics, they had a sharp clearly defined cutoff that virtually eliminates all oncoming light to other drivers, while lighting the road itself and the side of the road a lot more. Yet, these brighter and more courteous lights had been illegal in the USA. I have a German SUV with extremely powerful HID headlights, and on top of that, it is lifted- pretty awful for other drivers right? No! Because it has good optics with a sharp cutoff, and steerable headlights with tilt sensors on the suspension, and always keeps the headlights pointed low enough to not blind oncoming drivers, even when going over a bump. On top of that, it steers the lights into turns, and away from oncoming drivers around bends.

spaceisballer 2y ago
You’ve nailed it. I miss my Audi with headlights that moved when I turned the wheel. That alone would fix a lot of the issues of being blinded when coming around a curve. A lot of US pickup trucks just have lights across the whole front end, and if you drive a car it’s just illuminating the whole inside of your car and every mirror.
michael1999 2y ago
How is it when you pull up behind me in my hatchback at a red-light?
- _yb2s 2y ago
  From the factory, the high beam cutoff would still be below the bottom of your windows and mirrors, so it still wouldn't be bright to you at all. Since I did lift my vehicle for offroad use, if your vehicle is unusually low and I pulled right up on your bumper it could still shine bright inside (but still below the rearview mirror level)- but I am quite aware of this, and never pull forward enough that the cutoff rises above the bottom of the car window in front of me. This is also just a good driving technique for me as well, because it leaves me enough room to escape the lane or drive around you if I need to in an emergency, e.g. due to a disabled vehicle, etc.
  - michael1999 2y ago
    Nice. Then my only problem would be my side mirrors. They don't tilt or have a prism, so I'm boned there. But I can just move my head to the side until we get moving again.
  - MisterTea 2y ago
    > This is also just a good driving technique for me as well, because it leaves me enough room to escape the lane or drive around you if I need to in an emergency, e.g. due to a disabled vehicle, etc. We were taught this in high school drivers-ed.
Melatonic 2y ago
It's not even that the US has bad optics in our headlights Dealers are the ones responsible for making sure headlights are properly aligned before being sold so that the cut off is below the regulated height. This is, however, not at all enforced or incentivised. Which means that none does it and many headlights are aimed too high Many people also replace standard or HID bulbs with cheap LED bulbs which are not designed for the original housing and that results in crazy high lumens spraying everywhere without a proper cutoff. Police mask have no incentive to ticket for any of this and the end result is being blinded at night constantly by either mis aligned headlights or cheap super bright LED bulbs.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  That is all true, but even if properly aligned, most new cars in the USA have awful headlights with no sharp cutoff line at the top, so there is no way to point them to light the road well while not blinding oncoming drivers. Moreover, like I mentioned, quite a lot of European cars have systems to automatically align and even steer/shape the beams dynamically, and do not require that type of adjustment. VW's "dynamic light assist" for example, actively detects oncoming vehicles and dynamically reshapes the lighting pattern to block most of the light going directly towards other vehicles, while still lighting everything else.
- MisterTea 2y ago
  > Police mask have no incentive to ticket for any of this You used to get pulled over for running with high beams on in NYC. The usual reason for doing so was to hide a broken low beam head lamp and hope the cops didn't notice. Nowadays you can do whatever TF you want around here and no one seems to care.
jcrawfordor 2y ago
I think the problem with modern cars in the US is quite the opposite - the increasingly well-tuned optics are exacerbating the problem. Modern cars indeed have a very sharp, well-designed cutoff at the top of their beam patter. This makes correct vertical aiming very sensitive: aim just slightly too high and oncoming drivers get nearly the full output of your headlights; aim just a little too low and your vision range becomes noticeably limited. Older headlights, with much softer upper beam patterns, were far more forgiving. The problem is bad enough that, on my 2022, I carry an 8mm wrench in the glovebox so I can adjust the headlight aim as needed. This is particularly important because the aim is sensitive enough that loading or unloading the back of the car changes the level stance enough to put the headlights noticeably out of aim. Compounding this problem, it's very common for cars to have poorly-adjusted headlights from the factory, often too high. I think this is because the factory adjusts the lights for a combination of the rated loading and not getting complaints from new buyers (which is more likely when they are aimed too low). Additionally, at least in the US, the "correct" alignment of the headlights is defined by the position of the headlight themselves (the top cutoff should be level to the position of the bulb, is the simple version, although I think the more formal version specifies a measuring distance and slight upward tolerance). This means that tall vehicles like pickup trucks will blind oncoming drivers of shorter vehicles when properly adjusted---once again, this was a much more forgiving problem when the top of the light pattern was much softer, but has become extremely noticeable now that headlights emit their full output almost all the way to the top. I understand that auto-leveling headlights and headlights with a cabin height adjustment are much more common in Europe. For whatever reason they're rare in the US, and I think it might be difficult to get them to comply with US regulations which I understand to be somewhat archaic on this topic. Auto-leveling is probably the best technical solution available. How does it work on your German SUV? are the headlights aimed appreciably below level? Perhaps Germany uses a fixed height at fixed distance standard, which I think might be a better choice overall, but does have its downsides (allows lights on small cars to be aimed a lot higher).
- _yb2s 2y ago
  It works very well- the cutoff is always below the bottom of the window even on small sports cars, yet it lights the road itself a long ways. When the back squats due to loading it up, hauling a trailer, or I go over a bump with the front wheels- the headlights always stay pointed down out of peoples eyes. My vehicle is 15 years old, newer German SUVs have dynamic beam shaping that detects cars and actively blocks the light in just the right spots. Related to your other comments- I think taller vehicles should still have the lights themselves mounted low, and should angle downwards somewhat, not just forwards. It should not be legal to build or drive a car where the cutoff is high enough to blind people in normal cars.

by _yb2s 2y ago

spaceisballer 2y ago

You’ve nailed it. I miss my Audi with headlights that moved when I turned the wheel. That alone would fix a lot of the issues of being blinded when coming around a curve. A lot of US pickup trucks just have lights across the whole front end, and if you drive a car it’s just illuminating the whole inside of your car and every mirror.

michael1999 2y ago

How is it when you pull up behind me in my hatchback at a red-light?

_yb2s 2y ago
From the factory, the high beam cutoff would still be below the bottom of your windows and mirrors, so it still wouldn't be bright to you at all. Since I did lift my vehicle for offroad use, if your vehicle is unusually low and I pulled right up on your bumper it could still shine bright inside (but still below the rearview mirror level)- but I am quite aware of this, and never pull forward enough that the cutoff rises above the bottom of the car window in front of me. This is also just a good driving technique for me as well, because it leaves me enough room to escape the lane or drive around you if I need to in an emergency, e.g. due to a disabled vehicle, etc.
- michael1999 2y ago
  Nice. Then my only problem would be my side mirrors. They don't tilt or have a prism, so I'm boned there. But I can just move my head to the side until we get moving again.
- MisterTea 2y ago
  > This is also just a good driving technique for me as well, because it leaves me enough room to escape the lane or drive around you if I need to in an emergency, e.g. due to a disabled vehicle, etc. We were taught this in high school drivers-ed.

Melatonic 2y ago

It's not even that the US has bad optics in our headlights Dealers are the ones responsible for making sure headlights are properly aligned before being sold so that the cut off is below the regulated height. This is, however, not at all enforced or incentivised. Which means that none does it and many headlights are aimed too high Many people also replace standard or HID bulbs with cheap LED bulbs which are not designed for the original housing and that results in crazy high lumens spraying everywhere without a proper cutoff. Police mask have no incentive to ticket for any of this and the end result is being blinded at night constantly by either mis aligned headlights or cheap super bright LED bulbs.

_yb2s 2y ago
That is all true, but even if properly aligned, most new cars in the USA have awful headlights with no sharp cutoff line at the top, so there is no way to point them to light the road well while not blinding oncoming drivers. Moreover, like I mentioned, quite a lot of European cars have systems to automatically align and even steer/shape the beams dynamically, and do not require that type of adjustment. VW's "dynamic light assist" for example, actively detects oncoming vehicles and dynamically reshapes the lighting pattern to block most of the light going directly towards other vehicles, while still lighting everything else.
MisterTea 2y ago
> Police mask have no incentive to ticket for any of this You used to get pulled over for running with high beams on in NYC. The usual reason for doing so was to hide a broken low beam head lamp and hope the cops didn't notice. Nowadays you can do whatever TF you want around here and no one seems to care.

jcrawfordor 2y ago

I think the problem with modern cars in the US is quite the opposite - the increasingly well-tuned optics are exacerbating the problem. Modern cars indeed have a very sharp, well-designed cutoff at the top of their beam patter. This makes correct vertical aiming very sensitive: aim just slightly too high and oncoming drivers get nearly the full output of your headlights; aim just a little too low and your vision range becomes noticeably limited. Older headlights, with much softer upper beam patterns, were far more forgiving. The problem is bad enough that, on my 2022, I carry an 8mm wrench in the glovebox so I can adjust the headlight aim as needed. This is particularly important because the aim is sensitive enough that loading or unloading the back of the car changes the level stance enough to put the headlights noticeably out of aim. Compounding this problem, it's very common for cars to have poorly-adjusted headlights from the factory, often too high. I think this is because the factory adjusts the lights for a combination of the rated loading and not getting complaints from new buyers (which is more likely when they are aimed too low). Additionally, at least in the US, the "correct" alignment of the headlights is defined by the position of the headlight themselves (the top cutoff should be level to the position of the bulb, is the simple version, although I think the more formal version specifies a measuring distance and slight upward tolerance). This means that tall vehicles like pickup trucks will blind oncoming drivers of shorter vehicles when properly adjusted---once again, this was a much more forgiving problem when the top of the light pattern was much softer, but has become extremely noticeable now that headlights emit their full output almost all the way to the top. I understand that auto-leveling headlights and headlights with a cabin height adjustment are much more common in Europe. For whatever reason they're rare in the US, and I think it might be difficult to get them to comply with US regulations which I understand to be somewhat archaic on this topic. Auto-leveling is probably the best technical solution available. How does it work on your German SUV? are the headlights aimed appreciably below level? Perhaps Germany uses a fixed height at fixed distance standard, which I think might be a better choice overall, but does have its downsides (allows lights on small cars to be aimed a lot higher).

_yb2s 2y ago
It works very well- the cutoff is always below the bottom of the window even on small sports cars, yet it lights the road itself a long ways. When the back squats due to loading it up, hauling a trailer, or I go over a bump with the front wheels- the headlights always stay pointed down out of peoples eyes. My vehicle is 15 years old, newer German SUVs have dynamic beam shaping that detects cars and actively blocks the light in just the right spots. Related to your other comments- I think taller vehicles should still have the lights themselves mounted low, and should angle downwards somewhat, not just forwards. It should not be legal to build or drive a car where the cutoff is high enough to blind people in normal cars.