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We already know how to prevent it, it’s called anabolic steroids or testosterone. Once I read a study that showed sedentary people on testosterone gained more

We already know how to prevent it, it’s called anabolic steroids or testosterone. Once I read a study that showed sedentary people on testosterone gained more muscle mass than people actually working out.

mr_mitm 2y ago
Shouldn't that be obvious? A lot of untrained men are stronger than a lot of trained women, the deciding difference being their natural testosterone levels, presumably.
automatic6131 2y ago
Bhasin et. al 2001. If you get in many internet fights about bodybuilding, it's an important part of your repertoire :-)
- schmidtleonard 2y ago
  If you don't get in many internet fights about bodybuilding, testosterone can fix that too.
dyauspitr 2y ago
Yes that’s how you get an enlarged heart and die by 35.
- GenerWork 2y ago
  I take it you're talking about people like Dallas McCarver, whose autopsy found his testosterone levels to be extremely elevated [0] because of the number and volume of substances he was taking. If you're just taking base TRT and actually do cardio alongside weightlifting, you'll probably be fine. [0] https://drmirkin.com/histories-and-mysteries/dallas-mccarver-bodybuilder-dead-at-age-26.html https://drmirkin.com/histories-and-mysteries/dallas-mccarver...
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
    Fundamentally the heart is a muscle and anabolic steroids and test stimulate muscle growth in muscles at a cellular level. There’s no way to have one and not the other. That’s just the tip though. They have all kinds of far reaching effects ranging from curtailing height, significantly reducing IQ, constant skin breakouts, altered moods, hair loss, severe anxiety, paranoia, kidney and liver failure, bone breakages etc, severe and permanent decrease in the testosterone you naturally produce etc.
  - loeg 2y ago
    Great-grandparent comment is talking about supraphysiological doses of test and anabolics, not replacement-level T (TRT). I agree that physiological dose TRT in people with otherwise-low T is safe.
- optimalsolver 2y ago
  Even more importantly, test causes hair loss.
  - loeg 2y ago
    Sort of. Some fraction of test (natural or exogenous) converts to DHT via 5α-reductase, and some people (not everyone) have DHT-sensitive hair loss.
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
    You may be being facetious but if you’re not I would take hair loss over death any day.
YawningAngel 2y ago
Those are really unpleasant and dangerous to take and basically not an option for half the population though
- Mistletoe 2y ago
  TRT isn't unpleasant or dangerous to take at all though from any research I've seen. It's sitting in the low testosterone epidemic we have found ourselves in that has health risks and makes you feel very unpleasant indeed. https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-the-man-your-father-was/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-t...
layman51 2y ago
My first thought is the study must be capturing what they call “newbie gains” or “diminishing returns”. The sedentary experimental group can gain muscle so fast because they are just starting out on their journey. Also, it kind of reminds me of the idea that athletes take these as performance enhancing drugs because it helps them in the same way that following a strength-training program would help them.
- loeg 2y ago
  It isn't just beginner gains. Testosterone and anabolics are really, really effective. (They also have horrible side effects.)
justinator 2y ago
It truly is a wonder therapy with no known side effects. I pair it with Ozempic! /s.
Dylan16807 2y ago
Testosterone is a very broad spectrum way to mess with your whole body. Much better to do something targeted like reduce myostatin.
- loeg 2y ago
  You probably know this, but -- while the myostatin area is an interesting subject for research and drug development -- unlike testosterone, therapies are not commercially available (yet).
FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
They'll also tear their ligaments and tendons when they go to use that muscle mass...
jjcm 2y ago
This is me. I cycle on and off testosterone (100mg/w for 12 weeks typically) and combine it with light exercise (20-30min of lifting 3x a week). Other than that my only exercise is walks with my dog (typically ~45min). The rest of the time (~12hrs/day+) I'm at my desk. When I'm on testosterone it I definitely see major results, just from that level of exercise. My perspective on it is it is borrowing from the future. I feel better while on it, but it's just changing what the problem is. I've turned a sedentary lifestyle issue into a hormone issue. There are side effects (ie enlarged heart in the future). I'm using it as a crutch while I have a demanding job that keeps me working for longer hours.
- loeg 2y ago
  FWIW the research does not show enlarged heart or many of the other negative side effects for people taking TRT at therapeutic, physiological doses (like, your 100mg/week is not supraphysiological for many men with low T). (And if you aren't low T, why take exogenous T? Especially given your concerns about borrowing from the future.) The heart issues and other bad side effects happens when bodybuilders take 200-5000 mg/wk doses.
- silenced_trope 2y ago
  Why do take T in this manner? Won't it cause your hormones/sperm/hairline to get messed up?
- GenerWork 2y ago
  If you don't mind me asking, what type of major results do you see? Reduced fat percentage? Faster muscle gain?

mr_mitm 2y ago

Shouldn't that be obvious? A lot of untrained men are stronger than a lot of trained women, the deciding difference being their natural testosterone levels, presumably.

automatic6131 2y ago

Bhasin et. al 2001. If you get in many internet fights about bodybuilding, it's an important part of your repertoire :-)

schmidtleonard 2y ago
If you don't get in many internet fights about bodybuilding, testosterone can fix that too.

dyauspitr 2y ago

Yes that’s how you get an enlarged heart and die by 35.

GenerWork 2y ago
I take it you're talking about people like Dallas McCarver, whose autopsy found his testosterone levels to be extremely elevated [0] because of the number and volume of substances he was taking. If you're just taking base TRT and actually do cardio alongside weightlifting, you'll probably be fine. [0] https://drmirkin.com/histories-and-mysteries/dallas-mccarver-bodybuilder-dead-at-age-26.html https://drmirkin.com/histories-and-mysteries/dallas-mccarver...
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  Fundamentally the heart is a muscle and anabolic steroids and test stimulate muscle growth in muscles at a cellular level. There’s no way to have one and not the other. That’s just the tip though. They have all kinds of far reaching effects ranging from curtailing height, significantly reducing IQ, constant skin breakouts, altered moods, hair loss, severe anxiety, paranoia, kidney and liver failure, bone breakages etc, severe and permanent decrease in the testosterone you naturally produce etc.
- loeg 2y ago
  Great-grandparent comment is talking about supraphysiological doses of test and anabolics, not replacement-level T (TRT). I agree that physiological dose TRT in people with otherwise-low T is safe.
optimalsolver 2y ago
Even more importantly, test causes hair loss.
- loeg 2y ago
  Sort of. Some fraction of test (natural or exogenous) converts to DHT via 5α-reductase, and some people (not everyone) have DHT-sensitive hair loss.
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  You may be being facetious but if you’re not I would take hair loss over death any day.

YawningAngel 2y ago

Those are really unpleasant and dangerous to take and basically not an option for half the population though

Mistletoe 2y ago
TRT isn't unpleasant or dangerous to take at all though from any research I've seen. It's sitting in the low testosterone epidemic we have found ourselves in that has health risks and makes you feel very unpleasant indeed. https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-the-man-your-father-was/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-t...

layman51 2y ago

My first thought is the study must be capturing what they call “newbie gains” or “diminishing returns”. The sedentary experimental group can gain muscle so fast because they are just starting out on their journey. Also, it kind of reminds me of the idea that athletes take these as performance enhancing drugs because it helps them in the same way that following a strength-training program would help them.

loeg 2y ago
It isn't just beginner gains. Testosterone and anabolics are really, really effective. (They also have horrible side effects.)

justinator 2y ago

It truly is a wonder therapy with no known side effects. I pair it with Ozempic! /s.

Dylan16807 2y ago

Testosterone is a very broad spectrum way to mess with your whole body. Much better to do something targeted like reduce myostatin.

loeg 2y ago
You probably know this, but -- while the myostatin area is an interesting subject for research and drug development -- unlike testosterone, therapies are not commercially available (yet).

FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago

They'll also tear their ligaments and tendons when they go to use that muscle mass...

jjcm 2y ago

This is me. I cycle on and off testosterone (100mg/w for 12 weeks typically) and combine it with light exercise (20-30min of lifting 3x a week). Other than that my only exercise is walks with my dog (typically ~45min). The rest of the time (~12hrs/day+) I'm at my desk. When I'm on testosterone it I definitely see major results, just from that level of exercise. My perspective on it is it is borrowing from the future. I feel better while on it, but it's just changing what the problem is. I've turned a sedentary lifestyle issue into a hormone issue. There are side effects (ie enlarged heart in the future). I'm using it as a crutch while I have a demanding job that keeps me working for longer hours.

loeg 2y ago
FWIW the research does not show enlarged heart or many of the other negative side effects for people taking TRT at therapeutic, physiological doses (like, your 100mg/week is not supraphysiological for many men with low T). (And if you aren't low T, why take exogenous T? Especially given your concerns about borrowing from the future.) The heart issues and other bad side effects happens when bodybuilders take 200-5000 mg/wk doses.
silenced_trope 2y ago
Why do take T in this manner? Won't it cause your hormones/sperm/hairline to get messed up?
GenerWork 2y ago
If you don't mind me asking, what type of major results do you see? Reduced fat percentage? Faster muscle gain?