6 ms·
Bold take to proclaim we'll figure out interstellar travel before we figure out how to prevent muscle atrophy.
by DevX101 2y ago
Bold take to proclaim we'll figure out interstellar travel before we figure out how to prevent muscle atrophy.
- Mistletoe 2y agoWe already know how to prevent it, it’s called anabolic steroids or testosterone. Once I read a study that showed sedentary people on testosterone gained more muscle mass than people actually working out.
- mr_mitm 2y agoShouldn't that be obvious? A lot of untrained men are stronger than a lot of trained women, the deciding difference being their natural testosterone levels, presumably.
- automatic6131 2y agoBhasin et. al 2001. If you get in many internet fights about bodybuilding, it's an important part of your repertoire :-)
- schmidtleonard 2y agoIf you don't get in many internet fights about bodybuilding, testosterone can fix that too.
- dyauspitr 2y agoYes that’s how you get an enlarged heart and die by 35.
- GenerWork 2y agoI take it you're talking about people like Dallas McCarver, whose autopsy found his testosterone levels to be extremely elevated [0] because of the number and volume of substances he was taking. If you're just taking base TRT and actually do cardio alongside weightlifting, you'll probably be fine. [0] https://drmirkin.com/histories-and-mysteries/dallas-mccarver-bodybuilder-dead-at-age-26.html https://drmirkin.com/histories-and-mysteries/dallas-mccarver...
- dyauspitr 2y agoFundamentally the heart is a muscle and anabolic steroids and test stimulate muscle growth in muscles at a cellular level. There’s no way to have one and not the other. That’s just the tip though. They have all kinds of far reaching effects ranging from curtailing height, significantly reducing IQ, constant skin breakouts, altered moods, hair loss, severe anxiety, paranoia, kidney and liver failure, bone breakages etc, severe and permanent decrease in the testosterone you naturally produce etc.
- loeg 2y agoGreat-grandparent comment is talking about supraphysiological doses of test and anabolics, not replacement-level T (TRT). I agree that physiological dose TRT in people with otherwise-low T is safe.
- optimalsolver 2y agoEven more importantly, test causes hair loss.
- YawningAngel 2y agoThose are really unpleasant and dangerous to take and basically not an option for half the population though
- Mistletoe 2y agoTRT isn't unpleasant or dangerous to take at all though from any research I've seen. It's sitting in the low testosterone epidemic we have found ourselves in that has health risks and makes you feel very unpleasant indeed. https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-the-man-your-father-was/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2017/10/02/youre-not-t...
- layman51 2y agoMy first thought is the study must be capturing what they call “newbie gains” or “diminishing returns”. The sedentary experimental group can gain muscle so fast because they are just starting out on their journey. Also, it kind of reminds me of the idea that athletes take these as performance enhancing drugs because it helps them in the same way that following a strength-training program would help them.
- loeg 2y agoIt isn't just beginner gains. Testosterone and anabolics are really, really effective. (They also have horrible side effects.)
- justinator 2y agoIt truly is a wonder therapy with no known side effects. I pair it with Ozempic! /s.
- Dylan16807 2y agoTestosterone is a very broad spectrum way to mess with your whole body. Much better to do something targeted like reduce myostatin.
- loeg 2y agoYou probably know this, but -- while the myostatin area is an interesting subject for research and drug development -- unlike testosterone, therapies are not commercially available (yet).
- FuriouslyAdrift 2y agoThey'll also tear their ligaments and tendons when they go to use that muscle mass...
- jjcm 2y agoThis is me. I cycle on and off testosterone (100mg/w for 12 weeks typically) and combine it with light exercise (20-30min of lifting 3x a week). Other than that my only exercise is walks with my dog (typically ~45min). The rest of the time (~12hrs/day+) I'm at my desk. When I'm on testosterone it I definitely see major results, just from that level of exercise. My perspective on it is it is borrowing from the future. I feel better while on it, but it's just changing what the problem is. I've turned a sedentary lifestyle issue into a hormone issue. There are side effects (ie enlarged heart in the future). I'm using it as a crutch while I have a demanding job that keeps me working for longer hours.
- loeg 2y agoFWIW the research does not show enlarged heart or many of the other negative side effects for people taking TRT at therapeutic, physiological doses (like, your 100mg/week is not supraphysiological for many men with low T). (And if you aren't low T, why take exogenous T? Especially given your concerns about borrowing from the future.) The heart issues and other bad side effects happens when bodybuilders take 200-5000 mg/wk doses.
- silenced_trope 2y agoWhy do take T in this manner? Won't it cause your hormones/sperm/hairline to get messed up?
- GenerWork 2y agoIf you don't mind me asking, what type of major results do you see? Reduced fat percentage? Faster muscle gain?
- 383toast 2y agoalso bold take to proclaim we'll still have human bodies before moving up kardashev scale
- guerrilla 2y agoWe are human bodies.
- chimpanzee 2y agoAmen.
- exe34 2y agoReplace it one cell at a time. Ship of Theseus awaits to set sail.
- guerrilla 2y agoBodies are processes, like chemical reactions or baseball games, not "objects." No problem.
- exe34 2y agoobjects undergo processes. atoms in your body are replaced over a period of hours-years.
- chimpanzee 2y agoIs a tornado an object or a process?
- exe34 2y agois there a lot of tornadoes in a vacuum?
- 2y ago
- jeffreyrogers 2y agoWe know how already: exogenous testosterone (or other, more anabolic hormones), but that has downsides like left-ventricular hypertrophy, masculinization in women, and (usually reversible) infertility.
- loeg 2y agoYes, yes, it's safe to presume GP means "figure out muscle atrophy without the well-known terrible side effects of current treatments" from even a mildly charitable reading of his comment.
- yreg 2y agoInterstellar travel is not a prerequisite for K1 or K2.
- mperham 2y agoI think realistically we have to reduce our body mass by 99% if we want to go interplanetary, much less interstellar. It's extremely expensive to drag around 70kg of meat and minimizing weight is key to making solar sails work.
- jandrese 2y agoI kind of suspect that working out suspended animation would be easier than trying to shrink humans. You can save a lot of mass by minimizing the amount of space you need via keeping the humans dormant for the entire trip and while also reducing food and water needs. Tightly pack them in, surround them with cargo to help with radiation shielding, and keep them hibernating for the entire trip.
- downrightmike 2y agoEmbryos are small, and data is free.
- owenpalmer 2y agoWe definitely don't need to reduce it for interplanetary travel.
- knowitnone 2y agoSure, let's remove 70kg. That'll get the ship moving...not.
- mperham 2y agoYou’re missing the fact that most of the weight of a spaceship is to support that 70kg and accelerate the whole thing. Watch this discussion about getting to Alpha Centauri. https://youtu.be/uZN5xjoS6TU?si=05xuUdWsWADrZY-i https://youtu.be/uZN5xjoS6TU?si=05xuUdWsWADrZY-i
- dmonitor 2y agothat's a fun thought experiment, but not at all practical
- rbanffy 2y agoWill we even remember what a muscle is at that point?
- AtlasBarfed 2y agoIt's not just steroids and replacement testosterone. I recall certain classes of drugs that make mice into muscle-bound warriors, I believe using a different pathway then steroids.
- pvaldes 2y agoThis is the easiest part. Our bodies are not good for this task, so only frozen gametes should travel to be "assembled" on destination. End of the problem