5 ms·

It is truly an extravert's world. What you just described sounds like torture to me.

cpfohl 2y ago
Networking is not just for extroverts. One on one time with friends, and small group networking is still valuable networking.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  > One on one time with friends, and small group networking is still valuable networking. Sure, but it isn't as likely to get you new opportunities in new fields the way being extroverted is.
  - cpfohl 2y ago
    I accept that premise if the goal is opportunity in novel fields. If the goal is simply landing an opportunity I think he introvert’s approach is actually more powerful. The extrovert has loads of low probability opportunities; they tend to be more varied due to the breadth of their networking. The introvert is selling to people they know; if they get to the point where they are asking for the opportunity I predict they land a larger percentage than the extrovert. Because they’re drawn from a smaller network, however, they are also likely to be in narrower fields.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      there are always different levels. what you say depends having friends and the ability to keep in touch with them in the first place. and not be shy to ask them after not talking to them for a long time. i struggle with that, and i only have a handful of people i could even ask. so far my network of people i already know is useless, and i feel like i have more chances to find new people, which requires going to events and meet new faces. except that only works in large cities with an active event scene. so no, being an introvert is a handicap and not an advantage.
billy99k 2y ago
How do you expect to be successful at anything without being somewhat social?
- hnthrowaway121 2y ago
  They might not. That’s why they’d describe it as “an extrovert’s world”.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    It is at some level if you take definitions to extremes. If you actively avoid conversations and socializing with other people, you will probably suffer personally and professionally. Of course, that doesn't mean you always have to be the "life of the party."
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      I’m not sure if suffer is the right word. Some people prefer a quiet life and accept what comes with that, because that’s what they want. And that’s fine. Of course if you want to live a quiet life and avoid socializing very much, and want to be a successful independent contractor, those might be fairly incompatible goals.
      - shadowerm 2y ago
        This all really has nothing to do with extroversion to me. We are talking about what is essentially sales and marketing skills. I am the life of the party but I would never try to freelance because I hate sales and marketing so much. This is all really asking how to start a business without having to do sales and marketing. Obviously, that is not going to work. One can either gain these skills or do something else.
        ghaff 2y ago
        There are some correlations. But I agree that you can be extroverted (whatever that means exactly) but most sales and marketing roles (which vary quite a bit) just don't appeal.
bdndndndbve 2y ago
Contracting as a solo dev is taking on sales and marketing as well as development. You have to charge accordingly. But you also have to be comfortable doing all of those roles, or else you won't have any work.
- ghaff 2y ago
  You seem to have a lot of people on forums like this who are just looking for some magical web form to fill out which will result in money flowing in after a couple of emails. Maybe that exists for some really transactional low-paid small tasks. But, as you say, it's not the reality for most opportunities. In "semi-retirement" (as I prefer to call it), I've contacted various people I know about random possibilities, that may or may not bring in any money, but it keeps doors open. If that's "torture" (per an upstream comment) I don't know what to say.
kmoser 2y ago
Does sending emails to people in your network fall into the torture category as well? (Serious question, not judging.) Because if it is, I'm wondering what is the exact pain point: composing the email? Sending it and not feeling silly? Something else?
- deanmoriarty 2y ago
  In the vast majority of cases, when I left a job I was genuinely excited about never having to see or talk to any of my coworkers/managers for the rest of my life, so breaking such streak with an intentional outreach would qualify as lightweight torture to me. In a career of 15+ years I don’t think I have ever reached out to an ex coworker, not even once. My current company happens to be particularly “prestigious” at this point in time and I have received hundreds (yes, 100+) of LinkedIn messages from ex coworkers ranging from “meet and catch up” to “can you refer me there”. Some have gone as far as finding my phone number and texting me, after they didn’t receive a reply on LinkedIn. The nerve someone has after causing me so much pain and stress during code reviews or random acts of corporate backstabbing to ask for a referral years later. I ignored each and every one of them. I am not saying this is healthy at all and I well understand the problem is “me”, I would say I suffer from quite a bit of misanthropy against pretty much every coworker I ever had, and on top of that I am an extreme introvert, relationships forced upon me cause a lot of contempt. Fortunately I have a very small circle of people that I love (wife, blood family and a few good friends), so despite the misery of my comments I am not too unhappy when I’m not at work. To be clear, I am not the one looking for part-time gigs, I have decided that the solution to my struggles is to become financially independent via above-average frugality and diligent savings/investing, and then withdraw from the obligations of modern work. Technically I am already there, just trying to find the courage to quit my current (and last) job.
  - sfn42 2y ago
    You think every single one of your coworkers "cause you pain and stress during code reviews"? Yeah man, the problem is 100% you. That's a crazy thing to say. Have you ever seen a therapist? And how in the world do you expect these people to just magically know that you're a weirdo? The nerve to reach out after having reviewed your code.. man I'm baffled.
anbotero 2y ago
Not sure if being an introvert should be a limiting factor. I love my “bat cave”, working from home (live alone), I don’t generally like talking to people, even about relatable topics, but I noticed precisely what the OP is saying, the benefits of some interactions, even if they are not my cup of tea, so I kind of trained myself to go to (some) Meetups, conferences, talk to people, even at work (social channels). I forced myself through ALL of those at first. Now I’m pickier, but I can find myself enjoying most of the ones I pick. I’m not saying introverts should become extroverts, as long as we don’t dismiss the benefits of (some times) behaving like the other.

Networking is not just for extroverts. One on one time with friends, and small group networking is still valuable networking.

Suppafly 2y ago
> One on one time with friends, and small group networking is still valuable networking. Sure, but it isn't as likely to get you new opportunities in new fields the way being extroverted is.
- cpfohl 2y ago
  I accept that premise if the goal is opportunity in novel fields. If the goal is simply landing an opportunity I think he introvert’s approach is actually more powerful. The extrovert has loads of low probability opportunities; they tend to be more varied due to the breadth of their networking. The introvert is selling to people they know; if they get to the point where they are asking for the opportunity I predict they land a larger percentage than the extrovert. Because they’re drawn from a smaller network, however, they are also likely to be in narrower fields.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    there are always different levels. what you say depends having friends and the ability to keep in touch with them in the first place. and not be shy to ask them after not talking to them for a long time. i struggle with that, and i only have a handful of people i could even ask. so far my network of people i already know is useless, and i feel like i have more chances to find new people, which requires going to events and meet new faces. except that only works in large cities with an active event scene. so no, being an introvert is a handicap and not an advantage.

billy99k 2y ago

How do you expect to be successful at anything without being somewhat social?

hnthrowaway121 2y ago
They might not. That’s why they’d describe it as “an extrovert’s world”.
- ghaff 2y ago
  It is at some level if you take definitions to extremes. If you actively avoid conversations and socializing with other people, you will probably suffer personally and professionally. Of course, that doesn't mean you always have to be the "life of the party."
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    I’m not sure if suffer is the right word. Some people prefer a quiet life and accept what comes with that, because that’s what they want. And that’s fine. Of course if you want to live a quiet life and avoid socializing very much, and want to be a successful independent contractor, those might be fairly incompatible goals.
    - shadowerm 2y ago
      This all really has nothing to do with extroversion to me. We are talking about what is essentially sales and marketing skills. I am the life of the party but I would never try to freelance because I hate sales and marketing so much. This is all really asking how to start a business without having to do sales and marketing. Obviously, that is not going to work. One can either gain these skills or do something else.
      - ghaff 2y ago
        There are some correlations. But I agree that you can be extroverted (whatever that means exactly) but most sales and marketing roles (which vary quite a bit) just don't appeal.

bdndndndbve 2y ago

Contracting as a solo dev is taking on sales and marketing as well as development. You have to charge accordingly. But you also have to be comfortable doing all of those roles, or else you won't have any work.

ghaff 2y ago
You seem to have a lot of people on forums like this who are just looking for some magical web form to fill out which will result in money flowing in after a couple of emails. Maybe that exists for some really transactional low-paid small tasks. But, as you say, it's not the reality for most opportunities. In "semi-retirement" (as I prefer to call it), I've contacted various people I know about random possibilities, that may or may not bring in any money, but it keeps doors open. If that's "torture" (per an upstream comment) I don't know what to say.

kmoser 2y ago

Does sending emails to people in your network fall into the torture category as well? (Serious question, not judging.) Because if it is, I'm wondering what is the exact pain point: composing the email? Sending it and not feeling silly? Something else?

deanmoriarty 2y ago
In the vast majority of cases, when I left a job I was genuinely excited about never having to see or talk to any of my coworkers/managers for the rest of my life, so breaking such streak with an intentional outreach would qualify as lightweight torture to me. In a career of 15+ years I don’t think I have ever reached out to an ex coworker, not even once. My current company happens to be particularly “prestigious” at this point in time and I have received hundreds (yes, 100+) of LinkedIn messages from ex coworkers ranging from “meet and catch up” to “can you refer me there”. Some have gone as far as finding my phone number and texting me, after they didn’t receive a reply on LinkedIn. The nerve someone has after causing me so much pain and stress during code reviews or random acts of corporate backstabbing to ask for a referral years later. I ignored each and every one of them. I am not saying this is healthy at all and I well understand the problem is “me”, I would say I suffer from quite a bit of misanthropy against pretty much every coworker I ever had, and on top of that I am an extreme introvert, relationships forced upon me cause a lot of contempt. Fortunately I have a very small circle of people that I love (wife, blood family and a few good friends), so despite the misery of my comments I am not too unhappy when I’m not at work. To be clear, I am not the one looking for part-time gigs, I have decided that the solution to my struggles is to become financially independent via above-average frugality and diligent savings/investing, and then withdraw from the obligations of modern work. Technically I am already there, just trying to find the courage to quit my current (and last) job.
- sfn42 2y ago
  You think every single one of your coworkers "cause you pain and stress during code reviews"? Yeah man, the problem is 100% you. That's a crazy thing to say. Have you ever seen a therapist? And how in the world do you expect these people to just magically know that you're a weirdo? The nerve to reach out after having reviewed your code.. man I'm baffled.

anbotero 2y ago

Not sure if being an introvert should be a limiting factor. I love my “bat cave”, working from home (live alone), I don’t generally like talking to people, even about relatable topics, but I noticed precisely what the OP is saying, the benefits of some interactions, even if they are not my cup of tea, so I kind of trained myself to go to (some) Meetups, conferences, talk to people, even at work (social channels). I forced myself through ALL of those at first. Now I’m pickier, but I can find myself enjoying most of the ones I pick. I’m not saying introverts should become extroverts, as long as we don’t dismiss the benefits of (some times) behaving like the other.