3 ms·

Very interesting and non partisan description of the near hopelessness of trying to make government more effective!

roenxi 2y ago
Usually I am against one-liners like yours, but in this case I really think this is the only response. DOGE is a lobby group with no plan and therefore no prospects of success. There isn't much to talk about. The Republicans have been disingenuous about any efficiency or economic reform for my entire lifetime and even assuming Trump & Co are serious I doubt they have the numbers to get Congressional support for big reform, so there will be at most small incremental changes that will probably be rolled back in a few years. I'd like to be wrong, but if there is anything here I don't see it. It is going to take a lot more than buzz and conversation to handle the unmanageable pork-barrelling beast that is the US bureaucracy.
- wslh 2y ago
  Adopting a skeptical approach is indeed wise in politics. However, there's a significant opportunity to align bureaucracies with modern technologies. Politics, as a field, seems unusually resistant to technological advancements that could enhance democratic processes. This reminds me of the early days of IT, when it was merely a peripheral division in most organizations. Over time, IT evolved into a core strategic function, transforming how businesses operate. Could a similar shift happen in politics?
- kiba 2y ago
  My perspective is that if done correctly, the federal budget should stay roughly the same. Although I am worried about the federal budget being more devoted to debt servicing overtime. Perhaps it would be possible to boost service level while reducing budgetary load. The reason is simple. Fast and efficient bureaucracy requires adequate and well trained manpower to operate. It's not just about eliminating busywork, but also having the manpower to manage the queue.
  - roenxi 2y ago
    Bet you a dollar the bureaucracy has already thought of this and has multiple internal committees that have been working on those exact words for years. Any issues aren't going to be lack of good people or ideas, government is swimming in those. The issue is incentives at the systemic level and the patchworks of powerful interest groups. Adding, effectively, a new interest group doesn't look like progress to me. Especially since the incentives don't seem to be well aligned - why would Musk care about how efficient individual workers are? It might be, but it is far too early to say if it is.
  - jjtheblunt 2y ago
    “Fast and efficient bureaucracy”: can that even exist?
    - hobs 2y ago
      Yes, and the fact that you cannot even conceive of it tells you that you might be a victim of propaganda.
      - jjtheblunt 2y ago
        what example can you give?
- akira2501 2y ago
  It's a group with no real authority. Their only option is to create reports. In some cases the Administration may act directly on them. In the majority of cases it will be a report delivered to the legislature that they will then completely ignore. The largest budget programs are entitlements which the Trump team seems powerless to change and thus has no stated desire to engage with them at all or the Pentagon which is _the_ pork barrel machine as far as congress is concerned. DOGE mostly looks to be a PR distraction.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  > DOGE is a lobby group with no plan That Elon hasn't published a plan doesn't mean he doesn't have one. He's done the "impossible" many times before, so I expect a very serious effort. Can it fail, sure. But betting agains Elon is historically a terrible strategy.
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
It would have been a lot more interesting to explore why the US government is so resistant to any kind of reform compared to other forms of government. Especially in the last 40 years.
- lumost 2y ago
  I would venture, that the same factors which make the US resilient also contribute to its stagnation. The US government is now the world’s second oldest government. The system of checks and balances prevents large shifts in government. The lack of realistic external competition motivates complacency. Geography, and history prevent separation.
  - lovich 2y ago
    How are we stagnating? We’re growing every year, it’s like the number one policy goal of most governments is to make the economy grow each year. 10 years ago you might get predicative spell correct for text now we have generative AI like ChatGPT. Fuck we cured sickle cell anemia and got a FDA approved treatment out like 2 years ago, and other branches of science keep trucking along. We’re having a problem with distribution of this wealth but by no means is the US stagnating
    - lumost 2y ago
      The fortune 50 is thriving, but if you talk to a school teacher or any other “median” professional - they have seen a large quality of life decline in real dollar terms over the last 50 years. In the public sphere, the problems I learned about in grade school are still the top problems of today… except worse. Our government has become incapable of addressing public policy issues across the entire political spectrum from school shootings to immigration reform.
    - Neonlicht 2y ago
      Other countries are growing faster. It goes beyond America, the Western empire no longer dominates the global economy. When the US president goes to Vietnam he has to treat them as equals.

Usually I am against one-liners like yours, but in this case I really think this is the only response. DOGE is a lobby group with no plan and therefore no prospects of success. There isn't much to talk about. The Republicans have been disingenuous about any efficiency or economic reform for my entire lifetime and even assuming Trump & Co are serious I doubt they have the numbers to get Congressional support for big reform, so there will be at most small incremental changes that will probably be rolled back in a few years. I'd like to be wrong, but if there is anything here I don't see it. It is going to take a lot more than buzz and conversation to handle the unmanageable pork-barrelling beast that is the US bureaucracy.

wslh 2y ago
Adopting a skeptical approach is indeed wise in politics. However, there's a significant opportunity to align bureaucracies with modern technologies. Politics, as a field, seems unusually resistant to technological advancements that could enhance democratic processes. This reminds me of the early days of IT, when it was merely a peripheral division in most organizations. Over time, IT evolved into a core strategic function, transforming how businesses operate. Could a similar shift happen in politics?
kiba 2y ago
My perspective is that if done correctly, the federal budget should stay roughly the same. Although I am worried about the federal budget being more devoted to debt servicing overtime. Perhaps it would be possible to boost service level while reducing budgetary load. The reason is simple. Fast and efficient bureaucracy requires adequate and well trained manpower to operate. It's not just about eliminating busywork, but also having the manpower to manage the queue.
- roenxi 2y ago
  Bet you a dollar the bureaucracy has already thought of this and has multiple internal committees that have been working on those exact words for years. Any issues aren't going to be lack of good people or ideas, government is swimming in those. The issue is incentives at the systemic level and the patchworks of powerful interest groups. Adding, effectively, a new interest group doesn't look like progress to me. Especially since the incentives don't seem to be well aligned - why would Musk care about how efficient individual workers are? It might be, but it is far too early to say if it is.
- jjtheblunt 2y ago
  “Fast and efficient bureaucracy”: can that even exist?
  - hobs 2y ago
    Yes, and the fact that you cannot even conceive of it tells you that you might be a victim of propaganda.
    - jjtheblunt 2y ago
      what example can you give?
akira2501 2y ago
It's a group with no real authority. Their only option is to create reports. In some cases the Administration may act directly on them. In the majority of cases it will be a report delivered to the legislature that they will then completely ignore. The largest budget programs are entitlements which the Trump team seems powerless to change and thus has no stated desire to engage with them at all or the Pentagon which is _the_ pork barrel machine as far as congress is concerned. DOGE mostly looks to be a PR distraction.
BurningFrog 2y ago
> DOGE is a lobby group with no plan That Elon hasn't published a plan doesn't mean he doesn't have one. He's done the "impossible" many times before, so I expect a very serious effort. Can it fail, sure. But betting agains Elon is historically a terrible strategy.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

It would have been a lot more interesting to explore why the US government is so resistant to any kind of reform compared to other forms of government. Especially in the last 40 years.

lumost 2y ago
I would venture, that the same factors which make the US resilient also contribute to its stagnation. The US government is now the world’s second oldest government. The system of checks and balances prevents large shifts in government. The lack of realistic external competition motivates complacency. Geography, and history prevent separation.
- lovich 2y ago
  How are we stagnating? We’re growing every year, it’s like the number one policy goal of most governments is to make the economy grow each year. 10 years ago you might get predicative spell correct for text now we have generative AI like ChatGPT. Fuck we cured sickle cell anemia and got a FDA approved treatment out like 2 years ago, and other branches of science keep trucking along. We’re having a problem with distribution of this wealth but by no means is the US stagnating
  - lumost 2y ago
    The fortune 50 is thriving, but if you talk to a school teacher or any other “median” professional - they have seen a large quality of life decline in real dollar terms over the last 50 years. In the public sphere, the problems I learned about in grade school are still the top problems of today… except worse. Our government has become incapable of addressing public policy issues across the entire political spectrum from school shootings to immigration reform.
  - Neonlicht 2y ago
    Other countries are growing faster. It goes beyond America, the Western empire no longer dominates the global economy. When the US president goes to Vietnam he has to treat them as equals.