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I read a lot of this, had to stop. In a way, it's like the film itself. It has a lot of words, a lot of details, and it seems to mean something. But at the end,

I read a lot of this, had to stop. In a way, it's like the film itself. It has a lot of words, a lot of details, and it seems to mean something. But at the end, it really doesn't amount to much. "Mulholland Drive" was a much more effective comment on wealth, power, and misogyny.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
> But at the end, it really doesn't amount to much. Idk the rampant pedophilia in the movie certainly rhymes with revelations about Epstein.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Hollywood and the entertainment industry in general. So much child abuse.
- julianeon 2y ago
  I think it is implied that conspiracy theories involving Epstein don't amount to much either. That whole approach doesn't amount to much.
- dh2022 2y ago
  I am travelling now but after reading this article (and the comments) I will re-watch EWS again. If you do not mind - can you please point some examples of rampart pedophilia in the movie? I did not make this connection so far. But after reading this article I realized how much I was missing. Thanks!
jFatFinger 2y ago
That is because it was heavy edited by the studio after directors death and no where near the original cut. In original ending they actually give their daughter to the cult so they can be members.
- graeme 2y ago
  Huh. Worth trying. Is the original cut available?
  - AJRF 2y ago
    This comment is quite ironic and funny because the enduring interest in this movie is because it’s heavily disputed that the Final Cut is actually close to being Kubrick intended cut. That’s the whole mythos of the movie and why people like the OP wrote a huge thesis on the themes and motivation behind the movie.
    - freejazz 2y ago
      That's not even remotely true. There is enduring interest in this movie because it is fantastic and arguably one of the master's greatest works. There is a renewed interest in it by a certain group of people that think it has anything to do with pizzagate. They are super annoying.
      - sleepybrett 2y ago
        It goes on my list of 'dreamlike' movies, they don't always fully add up consciously but you can feel your unconscious going into overdrive while watching them (or maybe there is a surface plot that mostly adds up, like EWS, but there is clearly something going on at a least one other level). The viewing experience is often downright hypnotic for me. A few off the top of my head, this is a very personal list and I can't even claim that all these movies are 'good' in any particular sense. Just that they put me into this state: * basically anything in lynch's cannon. I'm not always the biggest fan of his stuff, but sometimes they hit me hard. * Cronenberg's Videodrome and it's spiritual sequel Existenz * Donnie Darko & Southland Tales (objectively just an awful movie) * Prince of Darkness * Enter the Void (not for the faint of heart) * Paprika * Solaris (the original mostly, there are some qualities in the remake) * Stalker * Dark City * Sorry to Bother You * The Fountain * 8 1/2 * The Ninth Gate * and certainly Eyes Wide Shut
emmelaich 2y ago
Its not a bad read but it's a bit loose. I'd object to the description of > Lolita (1962), Dr. Strangelove (1964), and A Clockwork Orange (1971)—three of his most celebrated works, and all three black comedies (about pedophilia, nuclear war, and violent crime, respectively). Hardly comedies (except Dr.S) and the "abouts" are superficial. A Clockwork Orange is about the nature of free will, not violent crime! The bit about Prescot Bush "who helped fund Hitler's regime" is a long bow to draw. Maybe technically true in some tiny irrelevant sense.
- mandmandam 2y ago
  > The bit about Prescot Bush "who helped fund Hitler's regime" is a long bow to draw. Maybe technically true in some tiny irrelevant sense. If anything the author is underselling the connection. Millions of 1930's dollars; gold, fuel, steel, coal, bonds etc [0] can hardly be described as 'tiny irrelevant'. > ... the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year [2009], show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty. Prescott was also implicated in the 1933 Business Plot [1]: > In July 2007, a BBC investigation reported that Prescott Bush, father of U.S. President George H. W. Bush and grandfather of then-president George W. Bush, was to have been a "key liaison" between the 1933 Business Plotters and the newly emerged Nazi regime in Germany,[51] although this has been disputed by Jonathan Katz as a misconception caused by a clerical research error.[52] According to Katz, "Prescott Bush was too involved with the actual Nazis to be involved with something that was so home grown as the Business Plot."[53] Both links below offer many sources, including the BBC and The Guardian, along with multiple official archives. 0 - https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/how-bushs-grandfather-helped-hitlers-rise-to-power https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/how-bushs-grandfa... 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
  - emmelaich 2y ago
tessierashpool9 2y ago
i personally do not watch a movie for its comments on wealth, power and what have you. why would i? just to confirm my opinions? why would i require movies for that. movies are for entertainment. both EWS and MHD are very entertaining movies.
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  Yeah "effective comments on wealth, power, and misogyny" is one of the least interesting and surface level takes of EWS and are not why it's interesting or so hypnotic.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

> But at the end, it really doesn't amount to much. Idk the rampant pedophilia in the movie certainly rhymes with revelations about Epstein.

SoftTalker 2y ago
Hollywood and the entertainment industry in general. So much child abuse.
julianeon 2y ago
I think it is implied that conspiracy theories involving Epstein don't amount to much either. That whole approach doesn't amount to much.
dh2022 2y ago
I am travelling now but after reading this article (and the comments) I will re-watch EWS again. If you do not mind - can you please point some examples of rampart pedophilia in the movie? I did not make this connection so far. But after reading this article I realized how much I was missing. Thanks!

jFatFinger 2y ago

That is because it was heavy edited by the studio after directors death and no where near the original cut. In original ending they actually give their daughter to the cult so they can be members.

graeme 2y ago
Huh. Worth trying. Is the original cut available?
- AJRF 2y ago
  This comment is quite ironic and funny because the enduring interest in this movie is because it’s heavily disputed that the Final Cut is actually close to being Kubrick intended cut. That’s the whole mythos of the movie and why people like the OP wrote a huge thesis on the themes and motivation behind the movie.
  - freejazz 2y ago
    That's not even remotely true. There is enduring interest in this movie because it is fantastic and arguably one of the master's greatest works. There is a renewed interest in it by a certain group of people that think it has anything to do with pizzagate. They are super annoying.
    - sleepybrett 2y ago
      It goes on my list of 'dreamlike' movies, they don't always fully add up consciously but you can feel your unconscious going into overdrive while watching them (or maybe there is a surface plot that mostly adds up, like EWS, but there is clearly something going on at a least one other level). The viewing experience is often downright hypnotic for me. A few off the top of my head, this is a very personal list and I can't even claim that all these movies are 'good' in any particular sense. Just that they put me into this state: * basically anything in lynch's cannon. I'm not always the biggest fan of his stuff, but sometimes they hit me hard. * Cronenberg's Videodrome and it's spiritual sequel Existenz * Donnie Darko & Southland Tales (objectively just an awful movie) * Prince of Darkness * Enter the Void (not for the faint of heart) * Paprika * Solaris (the original mostly, there are some qualities in the remake) * Stalker * Dark City * Sorry to Bother You * The Fountain * 8 1/2 * The Ninth Gate * and certainly Eyes Wide Shut

emmelaich 2y ago

Its not a bad read but it's a bit loose. I'd object to the description of > Lolita (1962), Dr. Strangelove (1964), and A Clockwork Orange (1971)—three of his most celebrated works, and all three black comedies (about pedophilia, nuclear war, and violent crime, respectively). Hardly comedies (except Dr.S) and the "abouts" are superficial. A Clockwork Orange is about the nature of free will, not violent crime! The bit about Prescot Bush "who helped fund Hitler's regime" is a long bow to draw. Maybe technically true in some tiny irrelevant sense.

mandmandam 2y ago
> The bit about Prescot Bush "who helped fund Hitler's regime" is a long bow to draw. Maybe technically true in some tiny irrelevant sense. If anything the author is underselling the connection. Millions of 1930's dollars; gold, fuel, steel, coal, bonds etc [0] can hardly be described as 'tiny irrelevant'. > ... the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year [2009], show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty. Prescott was also implicated in the 1933 Business Plot [1]: > In July 2007, a BBC investigation reported that Prescott Bush, father of U.S. President George H. W. Bush and grandfather of then-president George W. Bush, was to have been a "key liaison" between the 1933 Business Plotters and the newly emerged Nazi regime in Germany,[51] although this has been disputed by Jonathan Katz as a misconception caused by a clerical research error.[52] According to Katz, "Prescott Bush was too involved with the actual Nazis to be involved with something that was so home grown as the Business Plot."[53] Both links below offer many sources, including the BBC and The Guardian, along with multiple official archives. 0 - https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/how-bushs-grandfather-helped-hitlers-rise-to-power https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/how-bushs-grandfa... 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
- emmelaich 2y ago

tessierashpool9 2y ago

i personally do not watch a movie for its comments on wealth, power and what have you. why would i? just to confirm my opinions? why would i require movies for that. movies are for entertainment. both EWS and MHD are very entertaining movies.

whywhywhywhy 2y ago
Yeah "effective comments on wealth, power, and misogyny" is one of the least interesting and surface level takes of EWS and are not why it's interesting or so hypnotic.