6 ms·

Absinthe: From green fairy to moral panic

51 points by prismatic 2y ago

janalsncm 2y ago
I tried real absinthe in Spain. I believe it was slightly different from regular alcohol, but not different enough to merit a panic. I liked the taste quite a bit more than regular e.g. tequila.
soysandwhich 2y ago
[flagged]
tetris11 2y ago
A 45-74% green Anise drink for anyone wondering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe Gin is around 35-60%
yawnxyz 2y ago
the article doesn't dig deeply enough into why specifically absinthe triggered the panic — why not all anise drinks? What's specific about absinthe that's so psychedelic? If anything, tequila has way more of an effect on poor judgment...
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > why specifically absinthe triggered the panic Classism and moral panic. In the 19th century, it was a poor man's liquor. Jean Lanfray's drunken murder suicide of his wife also played a massive role in that. This was also the era of a very active and prominent temperance movement, as women were often at the mercy of alcoholic husbands and had few options for legal recourse. You'll find similar temperance movements today in India, Thailand, Vietnam, and other developing countries. > If anything, tequila has way more of an effect on poor judgment Never understood that stereotype either. I love drinking Mezcal neat and that's basically aged and smokey Tequila (yes ik this is a massive simplification). The only poor judgement it induced was me spending a ridiculous amount on niche Mezcals plus the occasional trip to Oaxaca.
  - vessenes 2y ago
    I'd typify Mezcal more as "basically old band-aids and burned tires". I'm not saying this isn't a complement. But "aged and smokey" might be an almost criminally inaccurate description of Mezcal to a lay-peson
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      Haha yea! Taste is definetly up to the beholder! I love smokey flavors (eg. Whiskey, Ribs, Tandoori) so Mezscal definetly scratches that itch. That said, I usually snack on veggies (Campari tomatoes, cucumbers), light meats (salami, smoked salmon), nuts, and bread while drinking - basically zakuski - while drinking so that probably helps.
- kergonath 2y ago
  > If anything, tequila has way more of an effect on poor judgment... Absinthe was around 70% abv. Much easier to overdose on alcohol than with 40-odd % tequila. It is although understood that there was a lot of adulterated absinthe around. And even in the presumably good stuff, the distillation techniques of the time left somewhat to be desired and the resulting drinks contained nasty chemicals (notably methanol). That said, I still think the moral panic was completely out of proportion and, as the article mentions, absinthe ended up being a convenient scapegoat. It is very similar to how gin was seen in England.
  - hocuspocus 2y ago
    That, and the French wine lobby. Funnily enough 110 years later, Pernod-Ricard is the #2 spirits and liquors group in the world.
  - schwartzworld 2y ago
    > resulting drinks contained nasty chemicals (notably methanol). This is a popular myth for two reasons: - you can’t make enough methanol to harm you through fermentation alone. Stories of methanol poisoning are more likely due to unscrupulous bootleggers adding it in. - you can’t separate methanol from ethanol using fractional distillation. There are things that do fraction out, like fusel oils. Methanol isn’t one of them. This means that the ratio of methanol to ethanol in the distilled drink will be pretty much the same as in the unfermented version. It is higher in ferments done with fruit skin, but not possible to actually harm yourself, especially in the presence of ethanol, which is used to treat methanol poisoning.
    - mtreis86 2y ago
      Got sources on your claims? All the sources for the second one, that I can find, say methanol and ethanol can be separated by fractional distillation, that it is isopropyl and ethanol that is troublesome due to their close boiling points. See for instance this patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US4013521A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US4013521A/en on purifying methanol
- polotics 2y ago
  There you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thujone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thujone
bitmasher9 2y ago
> Once the expensive drink of the French bourgeoisie and artists, absinthe became more affordable in the second half of the 19th century, whereupon workers, women and those in the French colonies, from North Africa to Indochina, began drinking it. For a period of time Absinthe was the cheapest, strongest drink in France. Its bad reputation comes from that.
- colechristensen 2y ago
  Its bad reputation is from a propaganda campaign from the wine industry which wasn’t entirely untrue, but highly exaggerated, especially compared to another alcoholic beverage.
rx_tx 2y ago
Gastropod is a great listen, and they did an absinthe episode, interesting history and details. https://gastropod.com/absinthe-the-worlds-most-dangerous-drink/ https://gastropod.com/absinthe-the-worlds-most-dangerous-dri...
TheGRS 2y ago
I remember when absinthe became legal to purchase in the US again and it seemed like it might become a cool drink to get drunk and maybe a little high from. I feel like it mostly got passed over though. The high from it seems like it was over-reported; I mean alternative ways to get high and drunk are pretty common these days, I don't think absinthe could really ever compete with edibles or whatever. The taste is fairly specific and I've only had a handful of cocktails that feature it well, gin/vodka/rum/whiskey are just better bases. In fact most cocktails I've seen it in usually have something else featured with absinthe meant to spruce up the taste and color a bit.
- schwartzworld 2y ago
  The hallucinogenic effects of wormwood are pretty highly overstated. You’d get alcohol poisoning before you get there, at least with commercial absinthe. Can’t say what it was like in Poe’s time. I think the main reason it got passed over is that anise isn’t popular with Americans. If you don’t like ouzo or arak or raki or pastis, you’re probably not going to love absinthe.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    The psychoactives could also have been bred out accidentally or on purpose in the intervening time. Wormwood is often propagated with cuttings so if someone bred a particularly flavorful or productive plant, it can take over the market.
  - shadowerm 2y ago
    I imported some french absinthe as soon as I realized it was legal again in the US in 2008. I was so excited with the glasses , spoon and the ritual. I couldn't even finish half a glass though. It was honestly the worst drink I can ever remember having. Just absolutely terrible. Really one of the most disappointing experiences of my life for how built up it was in my head. I still have the glasses that are so fun to drink wine out of but I would never bother with absinthe again. Even better if in a state with legal cannabis. Absinthe glass, cannabis lemonade and a shot or two of vodka. No green fairy placebo effect needed.
  - 2y ago
Jedd 2y ago
Vermouth also has artemisia (though requirements vary regionally - I think in the USA it's not essential, whereas in EU the law requires some form of wormwood). Vermouth being the French take on the German word for wormwood - Wermut

51 points by prismatic 2y ago

I tried real absinthe in Spain. I believe it was slightly different from regular alcohol, but not different enough to merit a panic. I liked the taste quite a bit more than regular e.g. tequila.

soysandwhich 2y ago

[flagged]

tetris11 2y ago

A 45-74% green Anise drink for anyone wondering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe Gin is around 35-60%

yawnxyz 2y ago

the article doesn't dig deeply enough into why specifically absinthe triggered the panic — why not all anise drinks? What's specific about absinthe that's so psychedelic? If anything, tequila has way more of an effect on poor judgment...

alephnerd 2y ago
> why specifically absinthe triggered the panic Classism and moral panic. In the 19th century, it was a poor man's liquor. Jean Lanfray's drunken murder suicide of his wife also played a massive role in that. This was also the era of a very active and prominent temperance movement, as women were often at the mercy of alcoholic husbands and had few options for legal recourse. You'll find similar temperance movements today in India, Thailand, Vietnam, and other developing countries. > If anything, tequila has way more of an effect on poor judgment Never understood that stereotype either. I love drinking Mezcal neat and that's basically aged and smokey Tequila (yes ik this is a massive simplification). The only poor judgement it induced was me spending a ridiculous amount on niche Mezcals plus the occasional trip to Oaxaca.
- vessenes 2y ago
  I'd typify Mezcal more as "basically old band-aids and burned tires". I'm not saying this isn't a complement. But "aged and smokey" might be an almost criminally inaccurate description of Mezcal to a lay-peson
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    Haha yea! Taste is definetly up to the beholder! I love smokey flavors (eg. Whiskey, Ribs, Tandoori) so Mezscal definetly scratches that itch. That said, I usually snack on veggies (Campari tomatoes, cucumbers), light meats (salami, smoked salmon), nuts, and bread while drinking - basically zakuski - while drinking so that probably helps.
kergonath 2y ago
> If anything, tequila has way more of an effect on poor judgment... Absinthe was around 70% abv. Much easier to overdose on alcohol than with 40-odd % tequila. It is although understood that there was a lot of adulterated absinthe around. And even in the presumably good stuff, the distillation techniques of the time left somewhat to be desired and the resulting drinks contained nasty chemicals (notably methanol). That said, I still think the moral panic was completely out of proportion and, as the article mentions, absinthe ended up being a convenient scapegoat. It is very similar to how gin was seen in England.
- hocuspocus 2y ago
  That, and the French wine lobby. Funnily enough 110 years later, Pernod-Ricard is the #2 spirits and liquors group in the world.
- schwartzworld 2y ago
  > resulting drinks contained nasty chemicals (notably methanol). This is a popular myth for two reasons: - you can’t make enough methanol to harm you through fermentation alone. Stories of methanol poisoning are more likely due to unscrupulous bootleggers adding it in. - you can’t separate methanol from ethanol using fractional distillation. There are things that do fraction out, like fusel oils. Methanol isn’t one of them. This means that the ratio of methanol to ethanol in the distilled drink will be pretty much the same as in the unfermented version. It is higher in ferments done with fruit skin, but not possible to actually harm yourself, especially in the presence of ethanol, which is used to treat methanol poisoning.
  - mtreis86 2y ago
    Got sources on your claims? All the sources for the second one, that I can find, say methanol and ethanol can be separated by fractional distillation, that it is isopropyl and ethanol that is troublesome due to their close boiling points. See for instance this patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US4013521A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US4013521A/en on purifying methanol
polotics 2y ago
There you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thujone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thujone

bitmasher9 2y ago

> Once the expensive drink of the French bourgeoisie and artists, absinthe became more affordable in the second half of the 19th century, whereupon workers, women and those in the French colonies, from North Africa to Indochina, began drinking it. For a period of time Absinthe was the cheapest, strongest drink in France. Its bad reputation comes from that.

colechristensen 2y ago
Its bad reputation is from a propaganda campaign from the wine industry which wasn’t entirely untrue, but highly exaggerated, especially compared to another alcoholic beverage.

rx_tx 2y ago

Gastropod is a great listen, and they did an absinthe episode, interesting history and details. https://gastropod.com/absinthe-the-worlds-most-dangerous-drink/ https://gastropod.com/absinthe-the-worlds-most-dangerous-dri...

TheGRS 2y ago

I remember when absinthe became legal to purchase in the US again and it seemed like it might become a cool drink to get drunk and maybe a little high from. I feel like it mostly got passed over though. The high from it seems like it was over-reported; I mean alternative ways to get high and drunk are pretty common these days, I don't think absinthe could really ever compete with edibles or whatever. The taste is fairly specific and I've only had a handful of cocktails that feature it well, gin/vodka/rum/whiskey are just better bases. In fact most cocktails I've seen it in usually have something else featured with absinthe meant to spruce up the taste and color a bit.

schwartzworld 2y ago
The hallucinogenic effects of wormwood are pretty highly overstated. You’d get alcohol poisoning before you get there, at least with commercial absinthe. Can’t say what it was like in Poe’s time. I think the main reason it got passed over is that anise isn’t popular with Americans. If you don’t like ouzo or arak or raki or pastis, you’re probably not going to love absinthe.
- throwup238 2y ago
  The psychoactives could also have been bred out accidentally or on purpose in the intervening time. Wormwood is often propagated with cuttings so if someone bred a particularly flavorful or productive plant, it can take over the market.
- shadowerm 2y ago
  I imported some french absinthe as soon as I realized it was legal again in the US in 2008. I was so excited with the glasses , spoon and the ritual. I couldn't even finish half a glass though. It was honestly the worst drink I can ever remember having. Just absolutely terrible. Really one of the most disappointing experiences of my life for how built up it was in my head. I still have the glasses that are so fun to drink wine out of but I would never bother with absinthe again. Even better if in a state with legal cannabis. Absinthe glass, cannabis lemonade and a shot or two of vodka. No green fairy placebo effect needed.
- 2y ago

Jedd 2y ago

Vermouth also has artemisia (though requirements vary regionally - I think in the USA it's not essential, whereas in EU the law requires some form of wormwood). Vermouth being the French take on the German word for wormwood - Wermut