9 ms·

macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

359 points by zdw 2y ago

lxgr 2y ago
What is this about? I seem to be missing a lot of context. > Apple broke the replicator. What's the replicator? > What this means is this: until Apple fixes the bug, you'll have to use "Backup - all files" with "Smart Update" to copy everything but the OS. Use that where? Is that an option in some macOS tool?
- jamestnz 2y ago
  The article's author seems to be part of the team behind the Mac disk-cloning/backup utility, SuperDuper. https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescriptio...
  - sam1r 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - dtgriscom 2y ago
    shirt-pocket.com and shirtpocket.com lead to the same company's website.
- a2tech 2y ago
  This is from the SuperDuper backup folks. SuperDuper is a tool that you can use to make bootable backups of your macOS system. Apple took away the ability for 3rd party tools to manipulate the OS and copy it to another partition/drive and took it upon themselves to provide that functionality via a utility. That utility is apparently non-functional in 15.2. So that breaks SuperDuper's ability to make a nice, clean, bootable backup of your Mac.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - sam1r 2y ago
    Is this something intentional that Apple has publicly stated in some realm? AFAIK, in that case, maybe it's just a bug that they're planning to fix...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - sam1r 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - chris_wot 2y ago
        Oh, my heart bleeds for Apple.
      - a1o 2y ago
        Well, Apple has a super weird bug tracker that you can report stuff but you are kept super in the dark - I remember reporting Safari bugs in the early days of WASM and it was zero communication until the bug got fixed.
        zeusk 2y ago
        It’s probably that they don’t want to risk leak any internal discussion. The information from the public "tracker" is just forwarded to the internal Radar and that's a one-way street.
        EasyMark 2y ago
        it's called radar I believe and they've used it for a long long time. I always assumed it was built completely in house in the before times
        2y ago
- griomnib 2y ago
  Apple’s built-in backup solution is called Time Machine. It was dogshit when it launched a decade ago, never got more reliable despite many OS releases, and is still largely dogshit. The author of the blog makes an application that is very good at making backups on macOS and now their app is broken due to skullduggery by Apple. So the issue is threefold: a) Apple further turning MascOS into iPhone, b) this harms competition, and c) users ultimately suffer because Apple has no incentive to get better.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    Or it's the same thing that has been happening for 15 years. People install .0, .1 or .2 release. Complain about bugs. Bugs get fixed. Repeat.
    - nrabulinski 2y ago
      Some might think this is what the beta is for but I guess not. Let’s excuse the multi trillion dollar company for releasing broken software, each release being more broken than the previous one
      - dwaite 2y ago
        That Super Duper post didn't indicate whether they filed feedback during the beta or not.
    - randyrand 2y ago
      It's gotten so bad I normally wait until 0.7 (final release).
  - lxgr 2y ago
    Time Machine is really quite good, all things considered. I’d be very happy if Apple were to bring it to iOS, but obviously they’ll never cannibalise their iCloud storage subscription business.
    - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
therein 2y ago
It also kernel panics if you power down external monitor but keep HDMI connected or have an HDMI output device that is powered off. It was a great out-of-the-box experience for my new MacBook Pro.
- unsnap_biceps 2y ago
  FWIW, I don't have the same behavior. I have a large tv hooked up to my caldigit TS3+ that is turned on and off when I want to watch a movie and I just tested it and it continues to work just fine.
  - teaearlgraycold 2y ago
    From the other commenter it sounds like it’s an issue with the built in hdmi port on the pro laptops.
    - therein 2y ago
      Here is part of the backtrace in case it brings it to the attention of someone: https://imgur.com/ycyVIzF https://imgur.com/ycyVIzF I already sent it to Apple but who knows when they'll maybe look at it. Panic at IOPortDPDelegate.cpp:256.
- sleepybrett 2y ago
  I do not have this problem, I do this every night.
  - sam1r 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - chris_wot 2y ago
      Why would you think that?
xyst 2y ago
Apple just can’t add features to their OS without breaking existing ones. Probably used Apple Intelligence to QA the OS release. Steve Jobs would be disgusted at what his company has become. “Just works”, my ass
- nerflad 2y ago
  I understand why you're getting downvoted but I also am in some form of agreement with the sentiment/hope they don't lose sight that they are pretty much keeping the dream of the consumer UNIX vendor alive.
  - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
    You don't matter to them. The "What's a computer?" ad shows what they care about. Do what they want and stay on the happy path. Otherwise, you're holding it wrong.
    - anfilt 2y ago
      Oh gawd that commercial... Yea I remember that pretenious commercial and it's end line when she says "What's a computer?", and I was wtf really what your holding is a computer. Sure a computer where the boot loader is locked down to the point you can't even load your own signing keys or side-load, effectively taking away full ownership of the device from the owner, but it's still a computer.
    - nerflad 2y ago
      Desktop linux has some market share in hollywood, I would think that market does matter to them as it did SGI etc.
      - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
        Apple is sitting on a massive pile of cash but won't dedicate a team to develop their own Unix userland tools. That's how much they care about the underpinnings of MacOS and power users.
SSNLF 2y ago
tldr; sudo asr restore --source and all tools that just call that are no longer viable.
jeffbee 2y ago
Gotta be honest, I find the idea of a bootable backup disk to be defective. What if it was an OS bug that wiped out your volume, and booting the backup does the exact same thing to the backup, because of the same bug?
- replete 2y ago
  It's actually insanely useful. Weekly clone to disk is something I value because if the machine dies I can use my clone on another machine and boot my real desktop without fuss and Continue Doing Things
- perfectra1n 2y ago
  The hope there would be that the backup is from before the OS bug reared its ugly head, so you can get what you need off of it. (or hope it doesn’t happen again)
- codazoda 2y ago
  Yeah, I don’t understand system backups anymore. I keep everything I care about in a single directory and clone that to the cloud. I no longer need to worry about backups outside of this. It’s easy enough to install a fresh OS and restore my directory. I’ll need to install a few apps but I’ll also have a nice clean system to work with.
  - eviks 2y ago
    And if you have many apps and don't treat your carefully edited configs as dirt, you'll understand it'd be a giant waste of time to recreate from scratch
    - avalys 2y ago
      I don’t carefully edit any configs. I try to be productive with the default/recommended configuration as much as possible, and be flexible when things change rather than fight to restore the familiar behavior. Otherwise you’re constantly fighting a lonely battle.
haileys 2y ago
> This sucks. We think it sucks. You think it sucks. But we can't fix it: Apple has to do so. And this is why I gave up on macOS several years ago now and moved to Linux. It's not about which OS is better or worse. All software has bugs. It's about the empowerment to _do something_ about the inevitable bugs, rather than wait and hope that a fix comes down from above.
- kelnos 2y ago
  And not just that: if an update breaks my Linux install, I can figure out what broke it and roll back to an older version. Rolling back updates on macOS or Windows is just... not really a thing, at least not without a full reinstall, assuming you even have installation media for older versions these days.
  - com2kid 2y ago
    Windows automatically save a restore point before updates are installed and rolling back - assuming the machine isn't bricked - is really simple.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      Windows Update once borked my overnight ML job to install “critical updates; reboot required” on my desktop. I bought a MacBook the next day and put Linux on that desktop. 100% happier.
  - bsder 2y ago
    It's actually really difficult to roll back a MacOS machine to an earlier OS even with a full reinstall. You either have to make MacOS backup disks immediately upon opening the machine, or you have to find MacOS installation disks from the dodgy high seas.
    - jasomill 2y ago
      Not really difficult to reinstall every major Intel Mac OS release, at least, as they're all downloadable from Apple in one way or another: 1. You can reinstall "the version of macOS that came with your Mac or the closest version that’s still available" via Internet Recovery[1]. 2. You can download installers for every major release back to High Sierra from Apple via the App Store[2] or directly from Apple's update servers using a tool like installinstallmacos[3]. 3. You can download installers for Sierra, El Capitan, Yosemite, Mountain Lion, and Lion directly from the Apple support site[2]. 3. You can download Snow Leopard and Leopard from the Apple developer site[4] (free registration required; paid membership possibly required). Note that the downloads on the developer site are the 10.x.0 retail builds, which may not be compatible with all Macs that shipped with a later build. In this case, assuming the version you need is no longer available via Internet Recovery, you'll probably need to install and patch on an older machine, then transfer the patched install to the target via disk swapping, imaging, or NetInstall, or to install and patch directly to the target machine's hard drive using Target Disk Mode (or else track down a copy of the model-specific restore DVDs that shipped with the target). Downloads from the App Store and support site should always be the latest point release, so this should only be a problem if you want to install Snow Leopard or Leopard on a post-release machine. Installing non-final point releases is admittedly problematic: you can download some but not all x.y.0 builds from the developer site, some but not all patches from the support site, and a few x.y.(z < latest) installers from Apple update servers, but AFAIK there's no way to get an arbitrary point release of any version unless you can find someone who has a copy saved. Though I wouldn't even be a little surprised if older patch releases were still available, unadvertised, somewhere on some public Apple Web server, given that you can still download System 6.0.3 (released October 1990; last supported Mac was the Classic, discontinued September 1992) if you know the correct URLs[5]. [1] https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/use-macos-recovery-on-an-intel-based-mac-mchl338cf9a8/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/use-macos-recovery-... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/102662 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102662 [3] https://github.com/munki/macadmin-scripts https://github.com/munki/macadmin-scripts [4] https://developer.apple.com/download/all/ https://developer.apple.com/download/all/ [5] http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk1of4.sea.bin http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Soft... http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk2of4.sea.bin http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Soft... http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk3of4.sea.bin http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Soft... http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk4of4.sea.bin http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Soft...
iamnotsure 2y ago
managed software, managed hardware, managed people
- khana 2y ago
  [dead]
- floydnoel 2y ago
  are you an anarchist, then? i am curious
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    I question the sanity of anyone who takes a good hard look at the world around them and isn't a little bit of an anarchist.
- alwayslikethis 2y ago
  One of the worst things about the move to smartphones is the inability to make full backups. I don't understand. It's my own device, all the data belongs to me, and I should be able to back it up whenever I want.
  - realusername 2y ago
    Some data is even completely unaccessible, like the app usage on Android. You can view it, but you can't export it in any shape or form.
    - alwayslikethis 2y ago
      It seems like you can, with the usageDirect app.
  - Reason077 2y ago
    It’s very easy on iOS to make a backup of your phone including all apps, settings, and data. Either to the cloud to locally to your own storage. What am I missing?
752963e64 2y ago
[dead]
nikisweeting 2y ago
Article is pretty unclear, "copying" can mean many things to many different people: cp -r / /Volumes/Clone # this never worked # what about rsync, does this still work? rsync --acls --archive --hard-links --one-file-system --sparse --xattrs / /Volumes/CLONE sudo bless -folder /Volumes/CLONE/System/Library/CoreServices # what about block-level copying, does this still work? sudo dd if=/dev/rdisk2 of=/dev/rdisk4 bs=1m conv=notrunc
- mrpippy 2y ago
  It’s documented in their older blog posts, I believe they use the ‘asr’ utility to copy the OS install. The many partitions that make up a macOS install means that cp or rsync isn’t enough. dd would do it, but at great cost in flexibility (can’t back up to a smaller disk, or select files) and speed
  - noisy_boy 2y ago
    > dd would do it, but at great cost in flexibility (can’t back up to a smaller disk, or select files) and speed I mean if we are talking about copying the whole OS or disk, that is a very macro operation. The fine-tuning can be done at the target location after copy like removing unwanted files/resizing partitions etc. No idea how slow would dd be but I thought you could specify larger blocksize for better performance (hoping someone more knowledgeable on dd can add their views).
submeta 2y ago
This is bad. - Just recently I broke my system badly. So I decided to erase my system and re-setup from time machine. After several unsuccessful attemts I realized that my Time Machine backup (1.45 tb) exceeded my ssd capacity (1 tb). I did research, and learned not to prune my Time Machine backups. As that may corrupt it. So after several days and failed attempts to restore from time machine and after some research and finding out that indeed it was still possible to boot from external ssd, I decided to buy a 2 TB ssd, restore to that ssd, boot from it, clean up excessive data, and migrate from that ssd to my Macbook. It took me three days to solve it. As each failed attempt and investigation took hours to complete. In the meantime I called Apple support to get help. I said right away that I am an IT professional who worked as sys admin in the past and that I would like to talk to experts. And they forwarded me to „experts“. The first said: „Forget about full restore, won’t work. Create a fresh install and manually (!) copy individual files from time machine to your mac.“ Second person told me to buy a new Mac with 2 tb ssd and restore to that. I asked her if it was possible to restore to an external ssd via Carbon Copy Cloner? As I did in the past half a dozen times. She told me she definitely does not recommend that path as she cannot recommend third party apps (?!?). I did not try that option immediately as I heared a few years ago that latest MacOSes do not support booting from external ssds. And so I didn’t think of this option. But some research and I found out that indeed it is still possible, but you have to go some extra steps. So if this wouldn’t have been possible I would have had spent two weeks to restore my machine. Or bought another machine with 2 tb just to restore from backup. PS: I spent almost 5k Euros for this maxed MacBook Pro with 64 gb. Plus Apple Care. I didn’t want to buy another Mac just to restore from backups. PPS: All of this was shortly before a very important presentation. So I was stuck with my work laptop (windows machine), and I am 90% less productive with it as it lacks my tools. Yeah, shouldn’t have screwed my main machine just before a super important milestone. Lessons learned.
- wetpaws 2y ago
  [dead]
- redmajor12 2y ago
  Sounds like the lesson learned here from reading your travail is not to invest in an ecosystem that makes it difficult to do a standard operation.
nbzso 2y ago
A side rant with some useful information: I had a nightmare week with an office Mac Mini, 2018 . When the employee tried to update to Sequoia, he faced the error-try again conundrum. So logically, I introduced the restore option. Oh boy, what a shitshow. So after faced by 8 hours restore process option, I proceeded to USB installation. Due to T2 restriction, enabling the boot process in restore utility menu is mandatory. Surprisingly, this cannot be done without working installation and admin user. So installing the OS which was the default for the computer and booting again was the next step. Long story short, the Mini stopped working in the middle of the installation. No chime sound. No light. We decided that it is dead for good. And then I got mad. Perfectly working computer bricked by slow and buggy restore process. 8 hours? Did Apple have no money to afford more server speed from Akamai? Or deliberately f&cks up the process, users to go and buy the new stuff? HMM. Solution: So I proceeded to DFU mode with non-recommended cable USB2 to USB-C (from my Logitech mouse, with data capabilities.) You power up the mini by holding the startup button and push the power cable in. USB-C must be connected to the first thunderbolt port after the HDMI input. Then magically you have a connection in your host mac Finder and proceed to restore the T2 firmware. Install as usual from the USB stick and revive the Mini. P.S. Found bits and pieces to come up with this solution from hardware repair forums. If you call your Apple "support" you know the procedure. Come to the store and buy more.
exabrial 2y ago
This is a perfect move from an environmentally focused company! This will totally help reduce ewaste and anyone supporting the environment should totally absolutely undeniably without question of common sense just buy all of their products!!!!!!!!!
- talldayo 2y ago
  Mother Nature just got a call that her first check cleared, she's very excited for the future of Apple's courageous new direction for e-waste management.
germandiago 2y ago
My bext comouter will not be a Mac. Works nice but the lock-in is crazy all the time.
- ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
  Yup both Mac and Windows have a better replacement now: Linux. Thanks to all the hardware vendors and Valve, Linux has become a better desktop alternative for sure.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    The day Microsoft decides Proton is a nuisance that gaming alternative is gone, as Valve decided fostering a GNU/Linux game ecosystem wasn't worth it.
    - SXX 2y ago
      Microsoft has joined Open Invention Network a while ago and AFAIK (though I can be wrong) Valve is also member of OIN. They can't really attack anyone using their patents now. And Valve is not exactly a small startup that's possible to sue into debt. Even though they're much smaller by headcount they certainly do have money and desire to fight any kind of legal battles. And with amount of goodwill Valve has from it's customer base anyone attacking them will end up with huge PR disaster. Also even if above wasn't true I doubt MS want any more antitrust scrutiny.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass. Valve got lucky with UWP. No need for patents. Also there is the whole question Microsoft has outlived its founders, will Valve be able to do the same, and those that come after Gabe will they sell it, what would their view be regarding Proton, and so on.
        2y ago
cynicalsecurity 2y ago
I'm amazed to people's reaction to this. You themselves have chosen to use a walled garden closed source OS. What did you expect? Apple not screwing you? Apple has been doing everything to hint they are turning macOS from general purpose OS into iOS-like nonsense. Why are you even surprised? Switching to Linux is long time overdue.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
trungpv1601 2y ago
So bad
quijoteuniv 2y ago
Mac use to be for tinkerers, that is not the case anymore, I loved to tinker with them 10 years ago, it was the only (reliable) platform you could work with sound. You bought a machine that would run years, people in studio would run many years with them, then they started to close it down more and more. I stopped working with sound but my old machine almost 20 years old still runs, out of tinkering with it i got into Linux, now i work in operations with k8s, creative, complex beatiful engineering
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
danielovichdk 2y ago
As long as they don't take away the __MACOSX folder when I copy other things.
amir734jj 2y ago
Maybe it's just me, but I've been so used to Linux for so many years that I have a really hard time using either Mac (helping relatives) or Windows (for work). I use a system76 laptop and a system76 PC. It's perfect.
- commandersaki 2y ago
  What's the battery life of something like that under normal usage?
keyle 2y ago
No one really complained with 15.1 and macOS completely blocking software that is "untrusted". You know the "move to bin" popup, which you used to unblock in the past by cmd+clicking the binary, or later via the settings menu for privacy & security (insane in its own right!) Since 15.1, you're done and dusted. Unsigned/untrusted binaries simply will not run on macOS, regardless of how much you trust them to be. Thanks Apple. That is a big deal, a really big deal... For the music industry, many industries and consumer grade software, such as game installers from GOG, etc. They simply don't open anymore once you install them fresh. I raged for about 15 mins at these idiots at Apple for making such a breaking change to user space. This is clearly not to protect the user as much as it is closing the walled garden onto users. Disgusting, silent move, in a minor release. Thankfully I found the solution in xattr -d com.apple.quarantine ~/binary But what do I do once this doesn't work anymore? I really wonder. I really like the M1-M4 chips. I can't stand listening to a fan anymore. If this keeps going south I will be jumping ship to the first distro that supports this hardware properly. A sad state of affairs. macOS is a beautiful OS with its problems but very workable. Apple is slowly picking at it and worsening it, mostly, throughout the years. Long live Snow Leopard!
- pas 2y ago
  moving to Asahi Linux seems like an option eventually
  - keyle 2y ago
    Yeah I was looking at that. The problem is I write my own mac software and I'd be missing on that.
    - pas 2y ago
      Do you make money from those? Are they created in some relatively cross-platformish way?
      - keyle 2y ago
        No and no. I just enjoy Swift and SwiftUI.
iamshs 2y ago
Tangential: I updated my iPhone 15 from 17 to 18.1 and got Safari crashes. Lost handoff capability from iPhone to MacBook, works perfectly the other way. Both of these problems are incredibly frustrating.
5350-uiop-1130 2y ago
1st mistake: purchasing a post 2013 apple product 2nd mistake: installing an update on said product
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
angry_octet 2y ago
Does anyone know of a way to disable the update notification badge? Or indeed remove the list of updates available. The old 'softwareupdate --ignore' flag has been removed. So freaking annoying.
oarfish 2y ago
The funniest bit about upgrading to Sequoia for me was that running programs in Apple's debugger breaks establishing local network connections. i.e. a device directly connected via ethernet can be communicated with when running the binary normally, but cannot under lldb. Meanwhile no prompts about allowing network connections etc. are presented. That wasted at least half a day until I realized I could just use the upstream LLVM debugger.

359 points by zdw 2y ago

lxgr 2y ago

What is this about? I seem to be missing a lot of context. > Apple broke the replicator. What's the replicator? > What this means is this: until Apple fixes the bug, you'll have to use "Backup - all files" with "Smart Update" to copy everything but the OS. Use that where? Is that an option in some macOS tool?

jamestnz 2y ago
The article's author seems to be part of the team behind the Mac disk-cloning/backup utility, SuperDuper. https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescriptio...
- sam1r 2y ago
  [flagged]
- dtgriscom 2y ago
  shirt-pocket.com and shirtpocket.com lead to the same company's website.
a2tech 2y ago
This is from the SuperDuper backup folks. SuperDuper is a tool that you can use to make bootable backups of your macOS system. Apple took away the ability for 3rd party tools to manipulate the OS and copy it to another partition/drive and took it upon themselves to provide that functionality via a utility. That utility is apparently non-functional in 15.2. So that breaks SuperDuper's ability to make a nice, clean, bootable backup of your Mac.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- sam1r 2y ago
  Is this something intentional that Apple has publicly stated in some realm? AFAIK, in that case, maybe it's just a bug that they're planning to fix...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - sam1r 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - chris_wot 2y ago
      Oh, my heart bleeds for Apple.
    - a1o 2y ago
      Well, Apple has a super weird bug tracker that you can report stuff but you are kept super in the dark - I remember reporting Safari bugs in the early days of WASM and it was zero communication until the bug got fixed.
      - zeusk 2y ago
        It’s probably that they don’t want to risk leak any internal discussion. The information from the public "tracker" is just forwarded to the internal Radar and that's a one-way street.
      - EasyMark 2y ago
        it's called radar I believe and they've used it for a long long time. I always assumed it was built completely in house in the before times
        2y ago
griomnib 2y ago
Apple’s built-in backup solution is called Time Machine. It was dogshit when it launched a decade ago, never got more reliable despite many OS releases, and is still largely dogshit. The author of the blog makes an application that is very good at making backups on macOS and now their app is broken due to skullduggery by Apple. So the issue is threefold: a) Apple further turning MascOS into iPhone, b) this harms competition, and c) users ultimately suffer because Apple has no incentive to get better.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Or it's the same thing that has been happening for 15 years. People install .0, .1 or .2 release. Complain about bugs. Bugs get fixed. Repeat.
  - nrabulinski 2y ago
    Some might think this is what the beta is for but I guess not. Let’s excuse the multi trillion dollar company for releasing broken software, each release being more broken than the previous one
    - dwaite 2y ago
      That Super Duper post didn't indicate whether they filed feedback during the beta or not.
  - randyrand 2y ago
    It's gotten so bad I normally wait until 0.7 (final release).
- lxgr 2y ago
  Time Machine is really quite good, all things considered. I’d be very happy if Apple were to bring it to iOS, but obviously they’ll never cannibalise their iCloud storage subscription business.
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

therein 2y ago

It also kernel panics if you power down external monitor but keep HDMI connected or have an HDMI output device that is powered off. It was a great out-of-the-box experience for my new MacBook Pro.

unsnap_biceps 2y ago
FWIW, I don't have the same behavior. I have a large tv hooked up to my caldigit TS3+ that is turned on and off when I want to watch a movie and I just tested it and it continues to work just fine.
- teaearlgraycold 2y ago
  From the other commenter it sounds like it’s an issue with the built in hdmi port on the pro laptops.
  - therein 2y ago
    Here is part of the backtrace in case it brings it to the attention of someone: https://imgur.com/ycyVIzF https://imgur.com/ycyVIzF I already sent it to Apple but who knows when they'll maybe look at it. Panic at IOPortDPDelegate.cpp:256.
sleepybrett 2y ago
I do not have this problem, I do this every night.
- sam1r 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - chris_wot 2y ago
    Why would you think that?

xyst 2y ago

Apple just can’t add features to their OS without breaking existing ones. Probably used Apple Intelligence to QA the OS release. Steve Jobs would be disgusted at what his company has become. “Just works”, my ass

nerflad 2y ago
I understand why you're getting downvoted but I also am in some form of agreement with the sentiment/hope they don't lose sight that they are pretty much keeping the dream of the consumer UNIX vendor alive.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  You don't matter to them. The "What's a computer?" ad shows what they care about. Do what they want and stay on the happy path. Otherwise, you're holding it wrong.
  - anfilt 2y ago
    Oh gawd that commercial... Yea I remember that pretenious commercial and it's end line when she says "What's a computer?", and I was wtf really what your holding is a computer. Sure a computer where the boot loader is locked down to the point you can't even load your own signing keys or side-load, effectively taking away full ownership of the device from the owner, but it's still a computer.
  - nerflad 2y ago
    Desktop linux has some market share in hollywood, I would think that market does matter to them as it did SGI etc.
    - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
      Apple is sitting on a massive pile of cash but won't dedicate a team to develop their own Unix userland tools. That's how much they care about the underpinnings of MacOS and power users.

SSNLF 2y ago

tldr; sudo asr restore --source and all tools that just call that are no longer viable.

jeffbee 2y ago

Gotta be honest, I find the idea of a bootable backup disk to be defective. What if it was an OS bug that wiped out your volume, and booting the backup does the exact same thing to the backup, because of the same bug?

replete 2y ago
It's actually insanely useful. Weekly clone to disk is something I value because if the machine dies I can use my clone on another machine and boot my real desktop without fuss and Continue Doing Things
perfectra1n 2y ago
The hope there would be that the backup is from before the OS bug reared its ugly head, so you can get what you need off of it. (or hope it doesn’t happen again)
codazoda 2y ago
Yeah, I don’t understand system backups anymore. I keep everything I care about in a single directory and clone that to the cloud. I no longer need to worry about backups outside of this. It’s easy enough to install a fresh OS and restore my directory. I’ll need to install a few apps but I’ll also have a nice clean system to work with.
- eviks 2y ago
  And if you have many apps and don't treat your carefully edited configs as dirt, you'll understand it'd be a giant waste of time to recreate from scratch
  - avalys 2y ago
    I don’t carefully edit any configs. I try to be productive with the default/recommended configuration as much as possible, and be flexible when things change rather than fight to restore the familiar behavior. Otherwise you’re constantly fighting a lonely battle.

haileys 2y ago

> This sucks. We think it sucks. You think it sucks. But we can't fix it: Apple has to do so. And this is why I gave up on macOS several years ago now and moved to Linux. It's not about which OS is better or worse. All software has bugs. It's about the empowerment to _do something_ about the inevitable bugs, rather than wait and hope that a fix comes down from above.

kelnos 2y ago
And not just that: if an update breaks my Linux install, I can figure out what broke it and roll back to an older version. Rolling back updates on macOS or Windows is just... not really a thing, at least not without a full reinstall, assuming you even have installation media for older versions these days.
- com2kid 2y ago
  Windows automatically save a restore point before updates are installed and rolling back - assuming the machine isn't bricked - is really simple.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Windows Update once borked my overnight ML job to install “critical updates; reboot required” on my desktop. I bought a MacBook the next day and put Linux on that desktop. 100% happier.
- bsder 2y ago
  It's actually really difficult to roll back a MacOS machine to an earlier OS even with a full reinstall. You either have to make MacOS backup disks immediately upon opening the machine, or you have to find MacOS installation disks from the dodgy high seas.
  - jasomill 2y ago
    Not really difficult to reinstall every major Intel Mac OS release, at least, as they're all downloadable from Apple in one way or another: 1. You can reinstall "the version of macOS that came with your Mac or the closest version that’s still available" via Internet Recovery[1]. 2. You can download installers for every major release back to High Sierra from Apple via the App Store[2] or directly from Apple's update servers using a tool like installinstallmacos[3]. 3. You can download installers for Sierra, El Capitan, Yosemite, Mountain Lion, and Lion directly from the Apple support site[2]. 3. You can download Snow Leopard and Leopard from the Apple developer site[4] (free registration required; paid membership possibly required). Note that the downloads on the developer site are the 10.x.0 retail builds, which may not be compatible with all Macs that shipped with a later build. In this case, assuming the version you need is no longer available via Internet Recovery, you'll probably need to install and patch on an older machine, then transfer the patched install to the target via disk swapping, imaging, or NetInstall, or to install and patch directly to the target machine's hard drive using Target Disk Mode (or else track down a copy of the model-specific restore DVDs that shipped with the target). Downloads from the App Store and support site should always be the latest point release, so this should only be a problem if you want to install Snow Leopard or Leopard on a post-release machine. Installing non-final point releases is admittedly problematic: you can download some but not all x.y.0 builds from the developer site, some but not all patches from the support site, and a few x.y.(z < latest) installers from Apple update servers, but AFAIK there's no way to get an arbitrary point release of any version unless you can find someone who has a copy saved. Though I wouldn't even be a little surprised if older patch releases were still available, unadvertised, somewhere on some public Apple Web server, given that you can still download System 6.0.3 (released October 1990; last supported Mac was the Classic, discontinued September 1992) if you know the correct URLs[5]. [1] https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/use-macos-recovery-on-an-intel-based-mac-mchl338cf9a8/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/use-macos-recovery-... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/102662 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102662 [3] https://github.com/munki/macadmin-scripts https://github.com/munki/macadmin-scripts [4] https://developer.apple.com/download/all/ https://developer.apple.com/download/all/ [5] http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk1of4.sea.bin http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Soft... http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk2of4.sea.bin http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Soft... http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk3of4.sea.bin http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Soft... http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk4of4.sea.bin http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Soft...

iamnotsure 2y ago

managed software, managed hardware, managed people

khana 2y ago
[dead]
floydnoel 2y ago
are you an anarchist, then? i am curious
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  I question the sanity of anyone who takes a good hard look at the world around them and isn't a little bit of an anarchist.
alwayslikethis 2y ago
One of the worst things about the move to smartphones is the inability to make full backups. I don't understand. It's my own device, all the data belongs to me, and I should be able to back it up whenever I want.
- realusername 2y ago
  Some data is even completely unaccessible, like the app usage on Android. You can view it, but you can't export it in any shape or form.
  - alwayslikethis 2y ago
    It seems like you can, with the usageDirect app.
- Reason077 2y ago
  It’s very easy on iOS to make a backup of your phone including all apps, settings, and data. Either to the cloud to locally to your own storage. What am I missing?

752963e64 2y ago

[dead]

nikisweeting 2y ago

Article is pretty unclear, "copying" can mean many things to many different people: cp -r / /Volumes/Clone # this never worked # what about rsync, does this still work? rsync --acls --archive --hard-links --one-file-system --sparse --xattrs / /Volumes/CLONE sudo bless -folder /Volumes/CLONE/System/Library/CoreServices # what about block-level copying, does this still work? sudo dd if=/dev/rdisk2 of=/dev/rdisk4 bs=1m conv=notrunc

mrpippy 2y ago
It’s documented in their older blog posts, I believe they use the ‘asr’ utility to copy the OS install. The many partitions that make up a macOS install means that cp or rsync isn’t enough. dd would do it, but at great cost in flexibility (can’t back up to a smaller disk, or select files) and speed
- noisy_boy 2y ago
  > dd would do it, but at great cost in flexibility (can’t back up to a smaller disk, or select files) and speed I mean if we are talking about copying the whole OS or disk, that is a very macro operation. The fine-tuning can be done at the target location after copy like removing unwanted files/resizing partitions etc. No idea how slow would dd be but I thought you could specify larger blocksize for better performance (hoping someone more knowledgeable on dd can add their views).

submeta 2y ago

This is bad. - Just recently I broke my system badly. So I decided to erase my system and re-setup from time machine. After several unsuccessful attemts I realized that my Time Machine backup (1.45 tb) exceeded my ssd capacity (1 tb). I did research, and learned not to prune my Time Machine backups. As that may corrupt it. So after several days and failed attempts to restore from time machine and after some research and finding out that indeed it was still possible to boot from external ssd, I decided to buy a 2 TB ssd, restore to that ssd, boot from it, clean up excessive data, and migrate from that ssd to my Macbook. It took me three days to solve it. As each failed attempt and investigation took hours to complete. In the meantime I called Apple support to get help. I said right away that I am an IT professional who worked as sys admin in the past and that I would like to talk to experts. And they forwarded me to „experts“. The first said: „Forget about full restore, won’t work. Create a fresh install and manually (!) copy individual files from time machine to your mac.“ Second person told me to buy a new Mac with 2 tb ssd and restore to that. I asked her if it was possible to restore to an external ssd via Carbon Copy Cloner? As I did in the past half a dozen times. She told me she definitely does not recommend that path as she cannot recommend third party apps (?!?). I did not try that option immediately as I heared a few years ago that latest MacOSes do not support booting from external ssds. And so I didn’t think of this option. But some research and I found out that indeed it is still possible, but you have to go some extra steps. So if this wouldn’t have been possible I would have had spent two weeks to restore my machine. Or bought another machine with 2 tb just to restore from backup. PS: I spent almost 5k Euros for this maxed MacBook Pro with 64 gb. Plus Apple Care. I didn’t want to buy another Mac just to restore from backups. PPS: All of this was shortly before a very important presentation. So I was stuck with my work laptop (windows machine), and I am 90% less productive with it as it lacks my tools. Yeah, shouldn’t have screwed my main machine just before a super important milestone. Lessons learned.

wetpaws 2y ago
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redmajor12 2y ago
Sounds like the lesson learned here from reading your travail is not to invest in an ecosystem that makes it difficult to do a standard operation.

nbzso 2y ago

A side rant with some useful information: I had a nightmare week with an office Mac Mini, 2018 . When the employee tried to update to Sequoia, he faced the error-try again conundrum. So logically, I introduced the restore option. Oh boy, what a shitshow. So after faced by 8 hours restore process option, I proceeded to USB installation. Due to T2 restriction, enabling the boot process in restore utility menu is mandatory. Surprisingly, this cannot be done without working installation and admin user. So installing the OS which was the default for the computer and booting again was the next step. Long story short, the Mini stopped working in the middle of the installation. No chime sound. No light. We decided that it is dead for good. And then I got mad. Perfectly working computer bricked by slow and buggy restore process. 8 hours? Did Apple have no money to afford more server speed from Akamai? Or deliberately f&cks up the process, users to go and buy the new stuff? HMM. Solution: So I proceeded to DFU mode with non-recommended cable USB2 to USB-C (from my Logitech mouse, with data capabilities.) You power up the mini by holding the startup button and push the power cable in. USB-C must be connected to the first thunderbolt port after the HDMI input. Then magically you have a connection in your host mac Finder and proceed to restore the T2 firmware. Install as usual from the USB stick and revive the Mini. P.S. Found bits and pieces to come up with this solution from hardware repair forums. If you call your Apple "support" you know the procedure. Come to the store and buy more.

exabrial 2y ago

This is a perfect move from an environmentally focused company! This will totally help reduce ewaste and anyone supporting the environment should totally absolutely undeniably without question of common sense just buy all of their products!!!!!!!!!

talldayo 2y ago
Mother Nature just got a call that her first check cleared, she's very excited for the future of Apple's courageous new direction for e-waste management.

germandiago 2y ago

My bext comouter will not be a Mac. Works nice but the lock-in is crazy all the time.

ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
Yup both Mac and Windows have a better replacement now: Linux. Thanks to all the hardware vendors and Valve, Linux has become a better desktop alternative for sure.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  The day Microsoft decides Proton is a nuisance that gaming alternative is gone, as Valve decided fostering a GNU/Linux game ecosystem wasn't worth it.
  - SXX 2y ago
    Microsoft has joined Open Invention Network a while ago and AFAIK (though I can be wrong) Valve is also member of OIN. They can't really attack anyone using their patents now. And Valve is not exactly a small startup that's possible to sue into debt. Even though they're much smaller by headcount they certainly do have money and desire to fight any kind of legal battles. And with amount of goodwill Valve has from it's customer base anyone attacking them will end up with huge PR disaster. Also even if above wasn't true I doubt MS want any more antitrust scrutiny.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass. Valve got lucky with UWP. No need for patents. Also there is the whole question Microsoft has outlived its founders, will Valve be able to do the same, and those that come after Gabe will they sell it, what would their view be regarding Proton, and so on.
      - 2y ago

cynicalsecurity 2y ago

I'm amazed to people's reaction to this. You themselves have chosen to use a walled garden closed source OS. What did you expect? Apple not screwing you? Apple has been doing everything to hint they are turning macOS from general purpose OS into iOS-like nonsense. Why are you even surprised? Switching to Linux is long time overdue.

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trungpv1601 2y ago

So bad

quijoteuniv 2y ago

Mac use to be for tinkerers, that is not the case anymore, I loved to tinker with them 10 years ago, it was the only (reliable) platform you could work with sound. You bought a machine that would run years, people in studio would run many years with them, then they started to close it down more and more. I stopped working with sound but my old machine almost 20 years old still runs, out of tinkering with it i got into Linux, now i work in operations with k8s, creative, complex beatiful engineering

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danielovichdk 2y ago

As long as they don't take away the __MACOSX folder when I copy other things.

amir734jj 2y ago

Maybe it's just me, but I've been so used to Linux for so many years that I have a really hard time using either Mac (helping relatives) or Windows (for work). I use a system76 laptop and a system76 PC. It's perfect.

commandersaki 2y ago
What's the battery life of something like that under normal usage?

keyle 2y ago

No one really complained with 15.1 and macOS completely blocking software that is "untrusted". You know the "move to bin" popup, which you used to unblock in the past by cmd+clicking the binary, or later via the settings menu for privacy & security (insane in its own right!) Since 15.1, you're done and dusted. Unsigned/untrusted binaries simply will not run on macOS, regardless of how much you trust them to be. Thanks Apple. That is a big deal, a really big deal... For the music industry, many industries and consumer grade software, such as game installers from GOG, etc. They simply don't open anymore once you install them fresh. I raged for about 15 mins at these idiots at Apple for making such a breaking change to user space. This is clearly not to protect the user as much as it is closing the walled garden onto users. Disgusting, silent move, in a minor release. Thankfully I found the solution in xattr -d com.apple.quarantine ~/binary But what do I do once this doesn't work anymore? I really wonder. I really like the M1-M4 chips. I can't stand listening to a fan anymore. If this keeps going south I will be jumping ship to the first distro that supports this hardware properly. A sad state of affairs. macOS is a beautiful OS with its problems but very workable. Apple is slowly picking at it and worsening it, mostly, throughout the years. Long live Snow Leopard!

pas 2y ago
moving to Asahi Linux seems like an option eventually
- keyle 2y ago
  Yeah I was looking at that. The problem is I write my own mac software and I'd be missing on that.
  - pas 2y ago
    Do you make money from those? Are they created in some relatively cross-platformish way?
    - keyle 2y ago
      No and no. I just enjoy Swift and SwiftUI.

iamshs 2y ago

Tangential: I updated my iPhone 15 from 17 to 18.1 and got Safari crashes. Lost handoff capability from iPhone to MacBook, works perfectly the other way. Both of these problems are incredibly frustrating.

5350-uiop-1130 2y ago

1st mistake: purchasing a post 2013 apple product 2nd mistake: installing an update on said product

deleted 2y ago

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angry_octet 2y ago

Does anyone know of a way to disable the update notification badge? Or indeed remove the list of updates available. The old 'softwareupdate --ignore' flag has been removed. So freaking annoying.

oarfish 2y ago

The funniest bit about upgrading to Sequoia for me was that running programs in Apple's debugger breaks establishing local network connections. i.e. a device directly connected via ethernet can be communicated with when running the binary normally, but cannot under lldb. Meanwhile no prompts about allowing network connections etc. are presented. That wasted at least half a day until I realized I could just use the upstream LLVM debugger.