3 ms·

Okay, sorry about that. I'll refrain in the future. However, I wonder, at what point should we override single variable optimization (in this case the single va

Okay, sorry about that. I'll refrain in the future. However, I wonder, at what point should we override single variable optimization (in this case the single variable is intellectual curiosity) if there is truly something heinous to point out? It seems by not doing that, we overnormalize those who will use intellectual curiosity as an excuse to subjugate.

dang 2y ago
That's a good question, because people who feel strongly about politics or current affairs often want to use this site to battle for what they believe is right. When we ask them not to do that here, on the grounds that HN is not that sort of website, they sometimes respond that what they're fighting for is more important. They're right, of course. Most of those questions are far more important than most of what appears on HN. The problem is that if we allowed it to, political battle would quickly consume everything it touches, much like the fire that flamewars are named after—so this is an existential issue for HN. Ultimately the question is: does a site dedicated to intellectual curiosity deserve to exist, even though other things are more important? Is there room for such a place? I think the answer has to be yes. But if so, it needs to be protected for that purpose, because default internet dynamics all point the other way. There are always many heinous things to point out, and such stories are far more emotionally intense than, say, a new type of superconductor having been discovered, or how work on formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem has been going lately. So I don't think we have much of a choice, if we want HN to survive as a sort of garden. Gardens and warfare can't coexist at the same place and time. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22current%20affairs%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... I'd add one bit to your last point though: I don't think "those who subjugate" are really doing that by appealing to intellectual curiosity—they have more powerful forces to do that with. I'd like to believe that in a community where intellectual curiosity is cultivated, subjugation is actually a little less likely. I can't prove that, though, and it may just be wishful thinking.
- mandmandam 2y ago
  Vouaobrasil speaks the truth here, if forcefully, and it's a truth all Americans would be wise to face up to sooner rather than later. And the hour has already grown late. "In order for me to write poetry that isn’t political I must listen to the birds and in order to hear the birds the warplanes must be silent." - Marwan Makhoul > Gardens and warfare can't coexist at the same place and time. Gardens are warfare. There are ten thousand tiny battles daily in each one. And yet, despite the chaos, the garden thrives. Often all the more with less interference.
  - dang 2y ago
    It looks like your account is using HN primarily for political battle. That's not allowed here, for reasons I've explained many times (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...). We end up having to ban accounts that won't stop doing it, and we've had to ask you about this kind of thing many times. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - mandmandam 2y ago
      > It looks like your account is using HN primarily for political battle. No I'm not. There's no way to interpret that statement as true unless you stretch multiple terms past the point of reason. I mention the genocide the US is funding, arming, and providing diplomatic cover for about once or twice a month, among many other comments, most non-political. If you feel the need to ban my account for that, go ahead dang. I'll say it again, if that helps: Vouaobrasil speaks the truth here. Their inspiration is all about spying to enforce the destructive nature of western civilization and global capitalism, and the assertion they 'use nature for inspiration' is an insult to all that is good: [0], [1]. It's not 'starting a flame war' or 'damaging the intellectual garden' to say so, nor is it starting a 'political battle'. It's directly related to the central 'point' of this post. The US military is a bigger polluter than 140 countries combined [2]. This green-washing puff-piece is a twisted insult to the intellectual curiosity you claim to stand in defense of (and are right now attempting to use to subjugate). If people can't rightly call it out as such, any claim to HN being an 'intellectual garden' is perverted. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... 2 - https://theconversation.com/us-military-is-a-bigger-polluter-than-as-many-as-140-countries-shrinking-this-war-machine-is-a-must-119269 https://theconversation.com/us-military-is-a-bigger-polluter...

dang 2y ago

That's a good question, because people who feel strongly about politics or current affairs often want to use this site to battle for what they believe is right. When we ask them not to do that here, on the grounds that HN is not that sort of website, they sometimes respond that what they're fighting for is more important. They're right, of course. Most of those questions are far more important than most of what appears on HN. The problem is that if we allowed it to, political battle would quickly consume everything it touches, much like the fire that flamewars are named after—so this is an existential issue for HN. Ultimately the question is: does a site dedicated to intellectual curiosity deserve to exist, even though other things are more important? Is there room for such a place? I think the answer has to be yes. But if so, it needs to be protected for that purpose, because default internet dynamics all point the other way. There are always many heinous things to point out, and such stories are far more emotionally intense than, say, a new type of superconductor having been discovered, or how work on formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem has been going lately. So I don't think we have much of a choice, if we want HN to survive as a sort of garden. Gardens and warfare can't coexist at the same place and time. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22current%20affairs%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... I'd add one bit to your last point though: I don't think "those who subjugate" are really doing that by appealing to intellectual curiosity—they have more powerful forces to do that with. I'd like to believe that in a community where intellectual curiosity is cultivated, subjugation is actually a little less likely. I can't prove that, though, and it may just be wishful thinking.

mandmandam 2y ago
Vouaobrasil speaks the truth here, if forcefully, and it's a truth all Americans would be wise to face up to sooner rather than later. And the hour has already grown late. "In order for me to write poetry that isn’t political I must listen to the birds and in order to hear the birds the warplanes must be silent." - Marwan Makhoul > Gardens and warfare can't coexist at the same place and time. Gardens are warfare. There are ten thousand tiny battles daily in each one. And yet, despite the chaos, the garden thrives. Often all the more with less interference.
- dang 2y ago
  It looks like your account is using HN primarily for political battle. That's not allowed here, for reasons I've explained many times (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...). We end up having to ban accounts that won't stop doing it, and we've had to ask you about this kind of thing many times. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - mandmandam 2y ago
    > It looks like your account is using HN primarily for political battle. No I'm not. There's no way to interpret that statement as true unless you stretch multiple terms past the point of reason. I mention the genocide the US is funding, arming, and providing diplomatic cover for about once or twice a month, among many other comments, most non-political. If you feel the need to ban my account for that, go ahead dang. I'll say it again, if that helps: Vouaobrasil speaks the truth here. Their inspiration is all about spying to enforce the destructive nature of western civilization and global capitalism, and the assertion they 'use nature for inspiration' is an insult to all that is good: [0], [1]. It's not 'starting a flame war' or 'damaging the intellectual garden' to say so, nor is it starting a 'political battle'. It's directly related to the central 'point' of this post. The US military is a bigger polluter than 140 countries combined [2]. This green-washing puff-piece is a twisted insult to the intellectual curiosity you claim to stand in defense of (and are right now attempting to use to subjugate). If people can't rightly call it out as such, any claim to HN being an 'intellectual garden' is perverted. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... 2 - https://theconversation.com/us-military-is-a-bigger-polluter-than-as-many-as-140-countries-shrinking-this-war-machine-is-a-must-119269 https://theconversation.com/us-military-is-a-bigger-polluter...