4 ms·

If people could do in-person socialization and pull people, they would not go to OnlyFans in the first place.

AlexandrB 2y ago
I think the causality might go the other way. They can't "pull" people in person because they spend all their time on OnlyFans. Talking to and charming people is a skill you can develop, not an immutable characteristic.
- zerkten 2y ago
  It's hard to convince people of this if they haven't developed the skill in any context. I was pleasantly surprised to see @brushfoot's comment and reply at the top when I started reading. I didn't realize I suffered from anxiety until a diagnosis in my mid-30s. I first developed coping skills for work situations in my first internship. Thanks to a great manager who recognized some of my issues and was able to give contextual help. After that my professional life was better, but I struggled in social and academic contexts. Eventually, I started to get the social/relationship part down but only by being forced to because I moved to another country for a job. Without these events, I'm not sure I'd have developed these skills. I still struggle and eventually pursued medication. I suspect some people have an undiagnosed condition, but the majority have limits to their emotional development, challenges from their upbringing, etc. that are very individual to resolve. Unless there is some forcing function, I think the majority of individuals will fall into paths which don't help them. Then it's even harder to get onto a path where it's /just/ a matter of "developing skills".
- tivert 2y ago
  > I think the causality might go the other way. They can't "pull" people in person because they spend all their time on OnlyFans. Talking to and charming people is a skill you can develop, not an immutable characteristic. And it's not even necessarily much of a skill, it's more spending the time and effort to find people you connect with (and being open to the people you do connect with).
- account42 2y ago
  Speaking in general is also a skill you can learn yet some people are naturally better at it than others. Same goes for empathy towards those less skilled than yourselves.
brushfoot 2y ago
Totally. It's a hard rut to get out of. But it's a skill that can be learned like any other. For me, I'm a bit of a screen junkie with social anxiety. One of my blockers was negative self-talk. I would think, "They're going to get angry. They're going to ignore you. They're busy. You're going to waste their time." I started replacing that with images of the person being interested and delighted by the interaction. That helped, but I also knew that wasn't realistic if I just walked up and blurted out, "Hi, I'm an isolated remote dev and I'd like to talk." Someone might be sympathetic, but I didn't want sympathy; I wanted people to have fun. So I started using the techniques I mentioned. This can all be learned from books on small talk, personality psychology, social dynamics, etc. But unfortunately, it's rarely talked about or taught, at least in my circles. And people are suffering as a consequence.
- gdjskshh 2y ago
  100% Isolation has a feedback that makes it hard to break out of once you're in really deep. The more desperately lonely you are, the worse your social skills. Strangers are strange when you're a stranger.
- awithrow 2y ago
  Any specific books you'd recommend?
  - freedomben 2y ago
    Most everything by Leil Lowndes is great IMHO. She helps you understand body language, which is a huge key to success. Most people telegraph their feelings with body language so you can pretty easily recognize who wants to talk and why doesn't. She also has a great sense of humor. Her books are very 90s/00s which might bother some people, hence this warning. Specifically she generalizes quite a bit based on sex/gender. Not in an exclusive way, but if you're somebody who feels strongly for example that there is no biological difference between the sexes, then you might have a hard time with her books. "How to talk to anyone" would be my first recommendation.
- j45 2y ago
Disruptive_Dave 2y ago
You're missing quite a bit of understanding here. First, I think the biggest concern is young men, who maybe haven't even had the chance to develop these social skills because they are born with the internet. Second, pick-up type skills (or any cold approach type activity) easily atrophy over time if not consistently employed. Shit, one year into a monogamous relationship and I suddenly get anxious at the thought of approaching strangers in a social setting, something I was quite comfortable with 13 months ago.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
"If people could do in-person socialization and pull people, they would not go to OnlyFans in the first place. " Are you sure. I think Only Fans was growing pretty rapidly before Covid and before AI. If I want a cute furry girl to scream at me that spaces are better than tabs, so i'm worthless coder, I'm not getting that in regular 'in-person' socialization.
- nemomarx 2y ago
  well sure, but you could probably get it on discord or something :v
- xxs 2y ago
  I do understand and agree about the spaces over tabs but why furry as well?
api 2y ago
You don't do in-person socialization to "pull" people. You "pull" git repositories. You do in-person socialization to experience the companionship of other human beings. It can be done over the net too, but in-person is better while the net has been actively and intentionally made worse to monetize addiction. If you want a girlfriend/boyfriend you start by making friends with people. Then you will notice some of your friends are of your sexually compatible gender, which means you may have friends that want to have sex. Also helps to avoid listening to incel/femcel, PUA, and similar bullshit that actively makes the listener repellent. A lot of women for example will ghost at the first whiff of Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson adjacent thinking, and as a man I'd do the same at the first whiff of the kind of stuff you hear on the angry womens' subreddits. I don't want someone with a head full of influencer poison. A major reason to get off the apps is because the apps (social media and similar) reward toxicity and exploitation and are structurally designed to be maximally addictive, meaning they're made to keep you on them not talking to other people. Social media stopped being social around 2012 really. I call them tobacco companies of the mind.
- blueflow 2y ago
  https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pull https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pull
  - api 2y ago
    Yeah that was kind of my point. Hope I wasn't too much of a jerk about it, but I think the idea that you're just meat and that all interactions are transactional is what turns people off. The real "red pill" is disconnecting from the matrix of social media, influencers, and PUA/MGTOW/incel (or their female equivalents, which do exist) stuff and being human. The "matrix" is monetized, manipulative, addictive social media and apps. Influencers are people who have aligned themselves intentionally with this matrix to ride on it and monetize you. Wasn't that how it was in the movie? Blue pill == stay connected to the matrix, red pill == go to the real world.
    - topheroo 2y ago
duxup 2y ago
I think people choose this because it is easier, not because they simply can't do it.
Andrex 2y ago
Self-fulfilling prophecy laced with abject defeatism and a refusal for self-improvement...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
vinceguidry 2y ago
I do in-person socialization all the time, and I still maintain an OnlyFans account. I don't talk to the models, but that's only because I'm demisexual and therefore would be paying $$$$ for an unsatisfying experience.

I think the causality might go the other way. They can't "pull" people in person because they spend all their time on OnlyFans. Talking to and charming people is a skill you can develop, not an immutable characteristic.

zerkten 2y ago
It's hard to convince people of this if they haven't developed the skill in any context. I was pleasantly surprised to see @brushfoot's comment and reply at the top when I started reading. I didn't realize I suffered from anxiety until a diagnosis in my mid-30s. I first developed coping skills for work situations in my first internship. Thanks to a great manager who recognized some of my issues and was able to give contextual help. After that my professional life was better, but I struggled in social and academic contexts. Eventually, I started to get the social/relationship part down but only by being forced to because I moved to another country for a job. Without these events, I'm not sure I'd have developed these skills. I still struggle and eventually pursued medication. I suspect some people have an undiagnosed condition, but the majority have limits to their emotional development, challenges from their upbringing, etc. that are very individual to resolve. Unless there is some forcing function, I think the majority of individuals will fall into paths which don't help them. Then it's even harder to get onto a path where it's /just/ a matter of "developing skills".
tivert 2y ago
> I think the causality might go the other way. They can't "pull" people in person because they spend all their time on OnlyFans. Talking to and charming people is a skill you can develop, not an immutable characteristic. And it's not even necessarily much of a skill, it's more spending the time and effort to find people you connect with (and being open to the people you do connect with).
account42 2y ago
Speaking in general is also a skill you can learn yet some people are naturally better at it than others. Same goes for empathy towards those less skilled than yourselves.

brushfoot 2y ago

Totally. It's a hard rut to get out of. But it's a skill that can be learned like any other. For me, I'm a bit of a screen junkie with social anxiety. One of my blockers was negative self-talk. I would think, "They're going to get angry. They're going to ignore you. They're busy. You're going to waste their time." I started replacing that with images of the person being interested and delighted by the interaction. That helped, but I also knew that wasn't realistic if I just walked up and blurted out, "Hi, I'm an isolated remote dev and I'd like to talk." Someone might be sympathetic, but I didn't want sympathy; I wanted people to have fun. So I started using the techniques I mentioned. This can all be learned from books on small talk, personality psychology, social dynamics, etc. But unfortunately, it's rarely talked about or taught, at least in my circles. And people are suffering as a consequence.

gdjskshh 2y ago
100% Isolation has a feedback that makes it hard to break out of once you're in really deep. The more desperately lonely you are, the worse your social skills. Strangers are strange when you're a stranger.
awithrow 2y ago
Any specific books you'd recommend?
- freedomben 2y ago
  Most everything by Leil Lowndes is great IMHO. She helps you understand body language, which is a huge key to success. Most people telegraph their feelings with body language so you can pretty easily recognize who wants to talk and why doesn't. She also has a great sense of humor. Her books are very 90s/00s which might bother some people, hence this warning. Specifically she generalizes quite a bit based on sex/gender. Not in an exclusive way, but if you're somebody who feels strongly for example that there is no biological difference between the sexes, then you might have a hard time with her books. "How to talk to anyone" would be my first recommendation.
j45 2y ago

Disruptive_Dave 2y ago

You're missing quite a bit of understanding here. First, I think the biggest concern is young men, who maybe haven't even had the chance to develop these social skills because they are born with the internet. Second, pick-up type skills (or any cold approach type activity) easily atrophy over time if not consistently employed. Shit, one year into a monogamous relationship and I suddenly get anxious at the thought of approaching strangers in a social setting, something I was quite comfortable with 13 months ago.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

"If people could do in-person socialization and pull people, they would not go to OnlyFans in the first place. " Are you sure. I think Only Fans was growing pretty rapidly before Covid and before AI. If I want a cute furry girl to scream at me that spaces are better than tabs, so i'm worthless coder, I'm not getting that in regular 'in-person' socialization.

nemomarx 2y ago
well sure, but you could probably get it on discord or something :v
xxs 2y ago
I do understand and agree about the spaces over tabs but why furry as well?

api 2y ago

You don't do in-person socialization to "pull" people. You "pull" git repositories. You do in-person socialization to experience the companionship of other human beings. It can be done over the net too, but in-person is better while the net has been actively and intentionally made worse to monetize addiction. If you want a girlfriend/boyfriend you start by making friends with people. Then you will notice some of your friends are of your sexually compatible gender, which means you may have friends that want to have sex. Also helps to avoid listening to incel/femcel, PUA, and similar bullshit that actively makes the listener repellent. A lot of women for example will ghost at the first whiff of Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson adjacent thinking, and as a man I'd do the same at the first whiff of the kind of stuff you hear on the angry womens' subreddits. I don't want someone with a head full of influencer poison. A major reason to get off the apps is because the apps (social media and similar) reward toxicity and exploitation and are structurally designed to be maximally addictive, meaning they're made to keep you on them not talking to other people. Social media stopped being social around 2012 really. I call them tobacco companies of the mind.

blueflow 2y ago
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pull https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pull
- api 2y ago
  Yeah that was kind of my point. Hope I wasn't too much of a jerk about it, but I think the idea that you're just meat and that all interactions are transactional is what turns people off. The real "red pill" is disconnecting from the matrix of social media, influencers, and PUA/MGTOW/incel (or their female equivalents, which do exist) stuff and being human. The "matrix" is monetized, manipulative, addictive social media and apps. Influencers are people who have aligned themselves intentionally with this matrix to ride on it and monetize you. Wasn't that how it was in the movie? Blue pill == stay connected to the matrix, red pill == go to the real world.
  - topheroo 2y ago

duxup 2y ago

I think people choose this because it is easier, not because they simply can't do it.

Andrex 2y ago

Self-fulfilling prophecy laced with abject defeatism and a refusal for self-improvement...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

vinceguidry 2y ago

I do in-person socialization all the time, and I still maintain an OnlyFans account. I don't talk to the models, but that's only because I'm demisexual and therefore would be paying $$$$ for an unsatisfying experience.