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I find it overall very unnerving how quiet this is and how the Canadian press never really finds issues with this. I often saw Japanese media moving lock-step

by jbm 2y ago

I find it overall very unnerving how quiet this is and how the Canadian press never really finds issues with this. I often saw Japanese media moving lock-step with the police (in terms of vocabulary to use for certain crimes, how to report certain issues), and thought it was creepy as hell. However, the complete lack of questioning of the purpose behind a sudden legalization of euthanasia (in a country with public healthcare and an inherent potential conflict of interest), and the entire concept of having "experts" sign off on it without any legal overview is creepy. Even using "medicalized" terms like MAID instead of euthanasia is unnerving to me. Put in another way, given how hard it is for people to see doctors, I wonder how much worse it would be without MAID? As it would clearly be worse, is this a mere sanitized form of cost cutting to deal with growing medical costs associated with treating the aging population?

Dalewyn 2y ago
A person can't choose for himself when or even if to come into existence in this world. In an era when human rights are considered sacred above all, it is hypocritical to me that a person can't decide for himself when he wants to quit.
fatbird 2y ago
Your whole comment frames MAID as something the gov't does to patients, not something patients choose as a better option than spending 6-12 months in agony with only one possible outcome. MAID isn't a cost cutting measure. The cost of palliative care for the terminally ill is trivial. It's not a loud issue in Canada because we've had decades of grappling with this (there's nothing sudden about it: google "Robert Latimer") and come to a humane solution: the near-term terminally ill can choose MAID, and a small number of long-term terminally ill can also choose it. Without MAID, you'd have the same number of deaths, they'd just be medicated into insensibility for the last few months instead of making a conscious choice about it. There's a legitimate fear in Canada about the misuse or abuse of MAID, especially amongst the disabled community (again, google "Robert Latimer"). But we've found zero evidence since its introduction of its abuse, of its application as a cost-cutting measure, of it being forced on people. You shouldn't take the fact that something is working as designed, as sinister.
- logicchains 2y ago
  >Your whole comment frames MAID as something the gov't does to patients, not something patients choose as a better option than spending 6-12 months in agony with only one possible outcome. It is something the government (or people working for it) have tried to push onto patients: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investigation-1.6663885 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investig... .
  - amatecha 2y ago
    Yeah, I think it's fair to be cautious about the topic and keep a close eye on the employment of the MAID process. It's definitely one of those things that warrants a lot of oversight IMO, lest the line between mercy and manslaughter be crossed by too much "suggestion" or "help". Not that I am especially well-versed on the subject - just my overall feeling on it.
  - fatbird 2y ago
    "a now-suspended Veterans Affairs Canada caseworker.... which has now uncovered a total of four cases where veterans were allegedly offered MAID — all apparently by the same caseworker". One person. Not the gov't, not many gov't employees. One person who presented the option overzealously or inappropriately, leading to four people feeling pressured, out of, IIRC, 45,000 people annually choosing MAID.
    - lucubratory 2y ago
      A lot of people who could be asked about whether they've been pressured or felt society could have done more for them than killing them are no longer available to collect evidence from for some reason.
    - refurb 2y ago
      One person...that we know of. The fact this one person did this, contradicts your earlier statement of "But we've found zero evidence since its introduction of its abuse, of its application as a cost-cutting measure, of it being forced on people."
cwillu 2y ago
Given that 1 in 4 people die from cancer, I'm surprised the number is so low.
spiralganglion 2y ago
I've felt since I was young that I'd like to choose when and how I will die. I'm perfectly comfortable with the thought. I'm in my 30s and have a lovely life and family. I'm in no rush to end things. But when I'm old and the scales tip, I'd like to be the one to decide that it's time. I might not ever get there, but I want the option.
- tail_exchange 2y ago
  Amen. I want the option to leave gracefully and in peace, if a time comes where I cannot perform my basic needs by myself. I never chose when and how I would be brought into this world, so I think it's fair that I can choose when and how to leave. Will I actually do it? That's irrelevant. I may decide to live and fight as much as possible, and that's fine, but I want the option.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  I've been hearing young and healthy people say this for my entire, fairly long, life. But I have never personally known an elderly or disabled person to kill themselves over it. If you find life worth living despite its hardships now, it's likely that you always will even as those hardships increase.
  - xboxnolifes 2y ago
    At some point it may be more than just hardship. 80+, paralyzed from the waist down, bedridden, bed sores, muscles atrophying, all of your enjoyments gone, your friends dead, dying, or lost most of their mental facilities, and you're completely miserable.
    - giraffe_lady 2y ago
      I have known people in approximately similar situations and they still didn't want to die.
      - xboxnolifes 2y ago
sunaookami 2y ago
Mainstream media globally shifted from critizing governments to being their mouthpiece so absolutely no surprises here.
tokioyoyo 2y ago
Do you know anyone who took the MAiD way out? Because once you know someone going through the pain, it changes one's perspective. I would never want my loved one, nor me to go through the agony of hell, if there's a more humane way of going through this experience.
squigz 2y ago
> I find it overall very unnerving how quiet this is and how the Canadian press never really finds issues with this. I suspect this claim to be dubious. I'm certain one can find 'Canadian press' that report issues with this. However, putting that aside... I am not surprised, because most people feel that our current prevailing culture of extending life at any cost of suffering is... cruel. Most people are glad we have things like this, so their loved ones - and themselves - can go out with some amount of dignity.
yatopifo 2y ago
As a Canadian, i would certainly write a very unpleasant letter to the editor of a Canadian newspaper publishing anything against MAiD. To me, euthanasia is unquestionably necessary. The problem of healthcare availability is completely orthogonal because MAiD is an option available but never forced as an alternative.
- jacobgkau 2y ago
  > The problem of healthcare availability is completely orthogonal because MAiD is an option available but never forced as an alternative. > an option available You're saying it's an "option," but also saying it's "orthogonal" whether the alternative option actually exists. What kind of logic is that?

by jbm 2y ago

Dalewyn 2y ago

A person can't choose for himself when or even if to come into existence in this world. In an era when human rights are considered sacred above all, it is hypocritical to me that a person can't decide for himself when he wants to quit.

fatbird 2y ago

Your whole comment frames MAID as something the gov't does to patients, not something patients choose as a better option than spending 6-12 months in agony with only one possible outcome. MAID isn't a cost cutting measure. The cost of palliative care for the terminally ill is trivial. It's not a loud issue in Canada because we've had decades of grappling with this (there's nothing sudden about it: google "Robert Latimer") and come to a humane solution: the near-term terminally ill can choose MAID, and a small number of long-term terminally ill can also choose it. Without MAID, you'd have the same number of deaths, they'd just be medicated into insensibility for the last few months instead of making a conscious choice about it. There's a legitimate fear in Canada about the misuse or abuse of MAID, especially amongst the disabled community (again, google "Robert Latimer"). But we've found zero evidence since its introduction of its abuse, of its application as a cost-cutting measure, of it being forced on people. You shouldn't take the fact that something is working as designed, as sinister.

logicchains 2y ago
>Your whole comment frames MAID as something the gov't does to patients, not something patients choose as a better option than spending 6-12 months in agony with only one possible outcome. It is something the government (or people working for it) have tried to push onto patients: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investigation-1.6663885 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investig... .
- amatecha 2y ago
  Yeah, I think it's fair to be cautious about the topic and keep a close eye on the employment of the MAID process. It's definitely one of those things that warrants a lot of oversight IMO, lest the line between mercy and manslaughter be crossed by too much "suggestion" or "help". Not that I am especially well-versed on the subject - just my overall feeling on it.
- fatbird 2y ago
  "a now-suspended Veterans Affairs Canada caseworker.... which has now uncovered a total of four cases where veterans were allegedly offered MAID — all apparently by the same caseworker". One person. Not the gov't, not many gov't employees. One person who presented the option overzealously or inappropriately, leading to four people feeling pressured, out of, IIRC, 45,000 people annually choosing MAID.
  - lucubratory 2y ago
    A lot of people who could be asked about whether they've been pressured or felt society could have done more for them than killing them are no longer available to collect evidence from for some reason.
  - refurb 2y ago
    One person...that we know of. The fact this one person did this, contradicts your earlier statement of "But we've found zero evidence since its introduction of its abuse, of its application as a cost-cutting measure, of it being forced on people."

cwillu 2y ago

Given that 1 in 4 people die from cancer, I'm surprised the number is so low.

spiralganglion 2y ago

I've felt since I was young that I'd like to choose when and how I will die. I'm perfectly comfortable with the thought. I'm in my 30s and have a lovely life and family. I'm in no rush to end things. But when I'm old and the scales tip, I'd like to be the one to decide that it's time. I might not ever get there, but I want the option.

tail_exchange 2y ago
Amen. I want the option to leave gracefully and in peace, if a time comes where I cannot perform my basic needs by myself. I never chose when and how I would be brought into this world, so I think it's fair that I can choose when and how to leave. Will I actually do it? That's irrelevant. I may decide to live and fight as much as possible, and that's fine, but I want the option.
giraffe_lady 2y ago
I've been hearing young and healthy people say this for my entire, fairly long, life. But I have never personally known an elderly or disabled person to kill themselves over it. If you find life worth living despite its hardships now, it's likely that you always will even as those hardships increase.
- xboxnolifes 2y ago
  At some point it may be more than just hardship. 80+, paralyzed from the waist down, bedridden, bed sores, muscles atrophying, all of your enjoyments gone, your friends dead, dying, or lost most of their mental facilities, and you're completely miserable.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    I have known people in approximately similar situations and they still didn't want to die.
    - xboxnolifes 2y ago

sunaookami 2y ago

Mainstream media globally shifted from critizing governments to being their mouthpiece so absolutely no surprises here.

tokioyoyo 2y ago

Do you know anyone who took the MAiD way out? Because once you know someone going through the pain, it changes one's perspective. I would never want my loved one, nor me to go through the agony of hell, if there's a more humane way of going through this experience.

squigz 2y ago

> I find it overall very unnerving how quiet this is and how the Canadian press never really finds issues with this. I suspect this claim to be dubious. I'm certain one can find 'Canadian press' that report issues with this. However, putting that aside... I am not surprised, because most people feel that our current prevailing culture of extending life at any cost of suffering is... cruel. Most people are glad we have things like this, so their loved ones - and themselves - can go out with some amount of dignity.

yatopifo 2y ago

As a Canadian, i would certainly write a very unpleasant letter to the editor of a Canadian newspaper publishing anything against MAiD. To me, euthanasia is unquestionably necessary. The problem of healthcare availability is completely orthogonal because MAiD is an option available but never forced as an alternative.

jacobgkau 2y ago
> The problem of healthcare availability is completely orthogonal because MAiD is an option available but never forced as an alternative. > an option available You're saying it's an "option," but also saying it's "orthogonal" whether the alternative option actually exists. What kind of logic is that?