4 ms·

We must have magnitudes more evidence of kids committing violence after playing violent video games; video games are much more popular and have been around a lo

We must have magnitudes more evidence of kids committing violence after playing violent video games; video games are much more popular and have been around a lot longer, and juvenile violence is more common than suicide.

Kbelicius 2y ago
> more evidence of kids committing violence after playing violent video games GP said: "no evidence of video games causing violence.", which is completely different to what you wrote. I'm sure a lot of violence is committed after lunch.
- tmtvl 2y ago
  Yes, but GGP also said that kids commited suicide after talking to a chatbot. I agree that there's no evidence for video games causing violence (rather the opposite), but this double standard that GGP is setting deserves calling out.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > GGP also said that kids commited suicide after talking to a chatbot A chatbot telling a kid to kill themselves and then the kid killing themselves seems like causation [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-la...
    - ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
      Sure, but so does a video game telling a kid to commit violent acts and then the kid committing violent acts. I don't think video games cause violence and I'm open to the possibility that chatbots cause suicide, but if we're going to compare evidence for each, we shouldn't do it in a biased way.
      - vacuity 2y ago
        It's prima facie more plausible for chatbots to cause suicide, considering that chatbots are more personal and interactive than even video games. There's a distinct difference, I would think, between what is obviously fake murder in a fake setting and being sympathized with, like one human to another, on thinking about actual murder. And while chatbots explicitly have the warning that they are not real people, I would not expect a person with an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex and possibly pre-existing mental health troubles (again, this can apply to video games too, but, I imagine, to a lesser degree) to fully act accordingly.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > so does a video game telling a kid to commit violent acts and then the kid committing violent acts Big difference is the video game industry had studies to back them up. Where are the data for chatbots? On the benefits? Lack of risk? Is there a single child psychologist in the ranks of these companies? Video games are also rated, to help parents make age-appropriate decisions. Is Character.ai age gated to any degree?
        bumby 2y ago
        Is it at least fair to say the data is mixed? Not my field, but there is some research to suggest video games may increase short-term aggression and desensitization to violence. And while industry research doesn’t equate to bad research, it should be held to a higher standard simply because of the obvious incentives. Would you automatically accept tobacco company research to make strong conclusions about the safety of smoking?
- bumby 2y ago
  Tbf, strict causality is very difficult to prove in social sciences, no? Meaning, most of the studies for/against the link between video games and violence can't meet that threshold. Social science isn't physics and I don't think it's fair to treat them the same.

Kbelicius 2y ago

> more evidence of kids committing violence after playing violent video games GP said: "no evidence of video games causing violence.", which is completely different to what you wrote. I'm sure a lot of violence is committed after lunch.

tmtvl 2y ago
Yes, but GGP also said that kids commited suicide after talking to a chatbot. I agree that there's no evidence for video games causing violence (rather the opposite), but this double standard that GGP is setting deserves calling out.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > GGP also said that kids commited suicide after talking to a chatbot A chatbot telling a kid to kill themselves and then the kid killing themselves seems like causation [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-la...
  - ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
    Sure, but so does a video game telling a kid to commit violent acts and then the kid committing violent acts. I don't think video games cause violence and I'm open to the possibility that chatbots cause suicide, but if we're going to compare evidence for each, we shouldn't do it in a biased way.
    - vacuity 2y ago
      It's prima facie more plausible for chatbots to cause suicide, considering that chatbots are more personal and interactive than even video games. There's a distinct difference, I would think, between what is obviously fake murder in a fake setting and being sympathized with, like one human to another, on thinking about actual murder. And while chatbots explicitly have the warning that they are not real people, I would not expect a person with an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex and possibly pre-existing mental health troubles (again, this can apply to video games too, but, I imagine, to a lesser degree) to fully act accordingly.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > so does a video game telling a kid to commit violent acts and then the kid committing violent acts Big difference is the video game industry had studies to back them up. Where are the data for chatbots? On the benefits? Lack of risk? Is there a single child psychologist in the ranks of these companies? Video games are also rated, to help parents make age-appropriate decisions. Is Character.ai age gated to any degree?
      - bumby 2y ago
        Is it at least fair to say the data is mixed? Not my field, but there is some research to suggest video games may increase short-term aggression and desensitization to violence. And while industry research doesn’t equate to bad research, it should be held to a higher standard simply because of the obvious incentives. Would you automatically accept tobacco company research to make strong conclusions about the safety of smoking?
bumby 2y ago
Tbf, strict causality is very difficult to prove in social sciences, no? Meaning, most of the studies for/against the link between video games and violence can't meet that threshold. Social science isn't physics and I don't think it's fair to treat them the same.