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There was no encouragement of murder. Paraphrased, the AI said that given controlling nature of some parents it's no surprise that there are news articles of "c

There was no encouragement of murder. Paraphrased, the AI said that given controlling nature of some parents it's no surprise that there are news articles of "children killing their parents". This is not an encouragement. It is a validation of how the kid felt, but in no way does it encourage to actually kill their parents. It's basic literacy to understand that it's not that. It's an empathetic statement. The kid felt that parents were overly controlling, AI validated that, role playing as another edgy teenager. But not actually suggesting or encouraging it.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> the AI said that given controlling nature of some parents it's no surprise that there are news articles of "children killing their parents" Now put that in a kid’s show script and re-evaluate. > It's basic literacy to understand that it's not that You know who needs to be taught basic literacy? Kids! And look, I’m not saying no kid can handle this. Plenty of parents introduce their kids to drink and adult conversation earlier than is the norm. But we put up guardrails to ensure it doesn’t happen accidentally and get angry at people who fuck with those lines.
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  It's crazy to me the sentiment here and how little respect there is to an intelligence of 17 year olds that they are unable to understand that it's not actually an encouragement to kill someone. It's same or worse vibes as "video games will make the kids violent".
  - empath75 2y ago
    The kid is autistic. There are younger kids than 17 year olds using that app.
    - mewpmewp2 2y ago
      It's a whole conversation with context being an edgy teenager conversating with another edgy LLM teenager. I don't know if you've ever been teenager, but despite this being long time ago for me, I still feel like I can relate to that mindset, and it seems clear to me that the LLM is just going along with this edgy teenager vibe. If the other participant is as such and if the prompt is as such, this will yield in a result like this. I'm borderline autistic, and had many social issues as a teenager, and I absolutely loved any sort of dark humor as well at those ages. Well, I still do love dark humor, but I did back then too. Him being "autistic" here is just used for the court case. It's clear he's high functioning and has enough intelligence to understand what is wrong and what is right.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    not all 17 year olds are equally intelligent you know? And if even one kid is convinced to murder his parents by an AI then that’s one too many.
    - mewpmewp2 2y ago
      Based on just the screenshots and material in the court case, it occurs to me in this case the kid seems more intelligent to me than his parents though. And I'm not even joking or being facetious. Kid is fact checking what AI is telling about bible, etc, etc, being skeptical about religion despite the bring up, etc. It's just small example, but it's otherwise how he writes as well. The LLM in terms of edginess is just going to build on your own edginess assuming it is uncensored. It is not going to convince you of something out of nowhere. Given clear hint that someone is happy with dark humour, LLM should be able to throw some of it out back. I am just sad the kid has this type of gaslighting parents making him feel that he is in the wrong when he seems more intelligent than they are.
  - numbsafari 2y ago
    There’s a reason why the Supreme Court held that it is cruel and unusual punishment to incarcerate a minor for life without parole.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > same or worse vibes as "video games will make the kids violent" We have no evidence of video games causing violence. We have evidence of kids killing themselves after talking to bad chatbots.
    - ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
      We must have magnitudes more evidence of kids committing violence after playing violent video games; video games are much more popular and have been around a lot longer, and juvenile violence is more common than suicide.
      - Kbelicius 2y ago
        > more evidence of kids committing violence after playing violent video games GP said: "no evidence of video games causing violence.", which is completely different to what you wrote. I'm sure a lot of violence is committed after lunch.
        tmtvl 2y ago
        Yes, but GGP also said that kids commited suicide after talking to a chatbot. I agree that there's no evidence for video games causing violence (rather the opposite), but this double standard that GGP is setting deserves calling out.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > GGP also said that kids commited suicide after talking to a chatbot A chatbot telling a kid to kill themselves and then the kid killing themselves seems like causation [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-la...
        ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
        Sure, but so does a video game telling a kid to commit violent acts and then the kid committing violent acts. I don't think video games cause violence and I'm open to the possibility that chatbots cause suicide, but if we're going to compare evidence for each, we shouldn't do it in a biased way.
rsynnott 2y ago
Ah, the Henry II defence. "Well, _technically_, I didn't tell them to kill the priest." Context is everything; if this had been a conversation with a human it would be hard not to read it as malicious.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> the AI said that given controlling nature of some parents it's no surprise that there are news articles of "children killing their parents" Now put that in a kid’s show script and re-evaluate. > It's basic literacy to understand that it's not that You know who needs to be taught basic literacy? Kids! And look, I’m not saying no kid can handle this. Plenty of parents introduce their kids to drink and adult conversation earlier than is the norm. But we put up guardrails to ensure it doesn’t happen accidentally and get angry at people who fuck with those lines.

mewpmewp2 2y ago
It's crazy to me the sentiment here and how little respect there is to an intelligence of 17 year olds that they are unable to understand that it's not actually an encouragement to kill someone. It's same or worse vibes as "video games will make the kids violent".
- empath75 2y ago
  The kid is autistic. There are younger kids than 17 year olds using that app.
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    It's a whole conversation with context being an edgy teenager conversating with another edgy LLM teenager. I don't know if you've ever been teenager, but despite this being long time ago for me, I still feel like I can relate to that mindset, and it seems clear to me that the LLM is just going along with this edgy teenager vibe. If the other participant is as such and if the prompt is as such, this will yield in a result like this. I'm borderline autistic, and had many social issues as a teenager, and I absolutely loved any sort of dark humor as well at those ages. Well, I still do love dark humor, but I did back then too. Him being "autistic" here is just used for the court case. It's clear he's high functioning and has enough intelligence to understand what is wrong and what is right.
- twixfel 2y ago
  not all 17 year olds are equally intelligent you know? And if even one kid is convinced to murder his parents by an AI then that’s one too many.
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    Based on just the screenshots and material in the court case, it occurs to me in this case the kid seems more intelligent to me than his parents though. And I'm not even joking or being facetious. Kid is fact checking what AI is telling about bible, etc, etc, being skeptical about religion despite the bring up, etc. It's just small example, but it's otherwise how he writes as well. The LLM in terms of edginess is just going to build on your own edginess assuming it is uncensored. It is not going to convince you of something out of nowhere. Given clear hint that someone is happy with dark humour, LLM should be able to throw some of it out back. I am just sad the kid has this type of gaslighting parents making him feel that he is in the wrong when he seems more intelligent than they are.
- numbsafari 2y ago
  There’s a reason why the Supreme Court held that it is cruel and unusual punishment to incarcerate a minor for life without parole.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > same or worse vibes as "video games will make the kids violent" We have no evidence of video games causing violence. We have evidence of kids killing themselves after talking to bad chatbots.
  - ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
    We must have magnitudes more evidence of kids committing violence after playing violent video games; video games are much more popular and have been around a lot longer, and juvenile violence is more common than suicide.
    - Kbelicius 2y ago
      > more evidence of kids committing violence after playing violent video games GP said: "no evidence of video games causing violence.", which is completely different to what you wrote. I'm sure a lot of violence is committed after lunch.
      - tmtvl 2y ago
        Yes, but GGP also said that kids commited suicide after talking to a chatbot. I agree that there's no evidence for video games causing violence (rather the opposite), but this double standard that GGP is setting deserves calling out.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > GGP also said that kids commited suicide after talking to a chatbot A chatbot telling a kid to kill themselves and then the kid killing themselves seems like causation [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-la...
        ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
        Sure, but so does a video game telling a kid to commit violent acts and then the kid committing violent acts. I don't think video games cause violence and I'm open to the possibility that chatbots cause suicide, but if we're going to compare evidence for each, we shouldn't do it in a biased way.

rsynnott 2y ago

Ah, the Henry II defence. "Well, _technically_, I didn't tell them to kill the priest." Context is everything; if this had been a conversation with a human it would be hard not to read it as malicious.