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What worries me is FB is in charge. It’s allegedly secure, but closed source. What’s their profit model here anyway?

robertlagrant 2y ago
I don't think it makes money. My best guess is it just was bought so no-one else bought it and linked a billion users into their social network.
kobalsky 2y ago
Whatsapp Business. $0.03-0.06 per conversation / authentication (multiple messages within 24hs) depending if it's transactional or marketing. SMS providers are unreliable and expensive, it's eating their business.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  > SMS providers are unreliable and expensive, it's eating their business. Is it actually though? At least in the UK I still get every business message (delivery notifications, booking confirmations etc.) via SMS. I haven't received a single one via WhatsApp. And WhatsApp has 100% penetration here so that isn't a barrier.
  - gfarah 2y ago
    I can speak for LATAM, here WhatsApp it's much more reliable and faster than SMS
insane_dreamer 2y ago
Drives users to FB, IG, and therefore ... ads.
- asplake 2y ago
  Does it? I’m a regular WhatsApp user and haven’t touched any other Meta app in a long time. Easy to forget that they’re connected.
itikasp 2y ago
Hey, I am one of the editors on this story, and we had the same question. Sharing with you a separate story from this package that explains the math/finance of WhatsApp. Hope this answers your question: https://restofworld.org/2024/how-whatsapp-for-business-changed-the-world/ https://restofworld.org/2024/how-whatsapp-for-business-chang...
noprocrasted 2y ago
It collects people's contacts and social graphs, which are then used to influence ad targeting in Meta's other platforms. That's why it insists so badly on having full access to your contacts.
- dcsommer 2y ago
  This is absolutely not true and would immediately trigger lawsuits across the globe. WhatsApp and Meta data separation is extremely strict. Source: I work at WhatsApp and also https://faq.whatsapp.com/1303762270462331 https://faq.whatsapp.com/1303762270462331 > We need your contacts to provide the service, but don’t share your contacts with Meta.
  - toast0 2y ago
    I would be very careful about making such statements. It is absolutely true that WhatsApp collects your contacts' phone numbers and your social graph. Unless WhatsApp has stopped doing that, in which case it should make a big announcement. I don't know if the social graph is used outside WhatsApp, so that part may not be true, but it is within the privacy policy to do so (at least the one I see, EU may have a different one), the privacy policy says WhatsApp may share information with Meta to among other things: > improving their services and your experiences using them, such as making suggestions for you (for example, of friends or group connections, or of interesting content), personalizing features and content, helping you complete purchases and transactions, and showing relevant offers and ads across the Meta Company Products; And there have been waves of policy updates, notifications etc specifically to get these terms. That doesn't mean Find my Friends gets this information, but I thought there was at least discussion of it.
    - dcsommer 2y ago
      This is not me making some grand new commitment. It's right in the privacy policy and also summarized here: https://faq.whatsapp.com/1303762270462331 https://faq.whatsapp.com/1303762270462331 > We need your contacts to provide the service, but don’t share your contacts with Meta. I'm frustrated that people even at HN allow themselves to indulge in conspiracy theories that would be immediately whistle-blowed or reported on. There are thousands of people that work on or with WhatsApp and related products within Meta who would notice, not to mention all the data separation audits that happen.
bonzini 2y ago
They bought WhatsApp to keep businesses on Facebook and to prevent it from being an actual "everything app", though in the end they started offering WhatsApp Business anyway. A lot of this became public from FTC vs Meta: https://www.businessinsider.com/ftc-facebook-lawsuit-makes-zuckerberg-emails-public-instagram-whatsapp-competition-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/ftc-facebook-lawsuit-makes-z...
MangoCoffee 2y ago
>What’s their profit model here anyway? users data, perhaps? your data feed into FB's machine. I'm sure they will figured out how to make money.

I don't think it makes money. My best guess is it just was bought so no-one else bought it and linked a billion users into their social network.

kobalsky 2y ago

Whatsapp Business. $0.03-0.06 per conversation / authentication (multiple messages within 24hs) depending if it's transactional or marketing. SMS providers are unreliable and expensive, it's eating their business.

IshKebab 2y ago
> SMS providers are unreliable and expensive, it's eating their business. Is it actually though? At least in the UK I still get every business message (delivery notifications, booking confirmations etc.) via SMS. I haven't received a single one via WhatsApp. And WhatsApp has 100% penetration here so that isn't a barrier.
- gfarah 2y ago
  I can speak for LATAM, here WhatsApp it's much more reliable and faster than SMS

insane_dreamer 2y ago

Drives users to FB, IG, and therefore ... ads.

asplake 2y ago
Does it? I’m a regular WhatsApp user and haven’t touched any other Meta app in a long time. Easy to forget that they’re connected.

itikasp 2y ago

Hey, I am one of the editors on this story, and we had the same question. Sharing with you a separate story from this package that explains the math/finance of WhatsApp. Hope this answers your question: https://restofworld.org/2024/how-whatsapp-for-business-changed-the-world/ https://restofworld.org/2024/how-whatsapp-for-business-chang...

noprocrasted 2y ago

It collects people's contacts and social graphs, which are then used to influence ad targeting in Meta's other platforms. That's why it insists so badly on having full access to your contacts.

dcsommer 2y ago
This is absolutely not true and would immediately trigger lawsuits across the globe. WhatsApp and Meta data separation is extremely strict. Source: I work at WhatsApp and also https://faq.whatsapp.com/1303762270462331 https://faq.whatsapp.com/1303762270462331 > We need your contacts to provide the service, but don’t share your contacts with Meta.
- toast0 2y ago
  I would be very careful about making such statements. It is absolutely true that WhatsApp collects your contacts' phone numbers and your social graph. Unless WhatsApp has stopped doing that, in which case it should make a big announcement. I don't know if the social graph is used outside WhatsApp, so that part may not be true, but it is within the privacy policy to do so (at least the one I see, EU may have a different one), the privacy policy says WhatsApp may share information with Meta to among other things: > improving their services and your experiences using them, such as making suggestions for you (for example, of friends or group connections, or of interesting content), personalizing features and content, helping you complete purchases and transactions, and showing relevant offers and ads across the Meta Company Products; And there have been waves of policy updates, notifications etc specifically to get these terms. That doesn't mean Find my Friends gets this information, but I thought there was at least discussion of it.
  - dcsommer 2y ago
    This is not me making some grand new commitment. It's right in the privacy policy and also summarized here: https://faq.whatsapp.com/1303762270462331 https://faq.whatsapp.com/1303762270462331 > We need your contacts to provide the service, but don’t share your contacts with Meta. I'm frustrated that people even at HN allow themselves to indulge in conspiracy theories that would be immediately whistle-blowed or reported on. There are thousands of people that work on or with WhatsApp and related products within Meta who would notice, not to mention all the data separation audits that happen.

bonzini 2y ago

They bought WhatsApp to keep businesses on Facebook and to prevent it from being an actual "everything app", though in the end they started offering WhatsApp Business anyway. A lot of this became public from FTC vs Meta: https://www.businessinsider.com/ftc-facebook-lawsuit-makes-zuckerberg-emails-public-instagram-whatsapp-competition-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/ftc-facebook-lawsuit-makes-z...

MangoCoffee 2y ago

>What’s their profit model here anyway? users data, perhaps? your data feed into FB's machine. I'm sure they will figured out how to make money.