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The PayPal Mafia is taking over America's government
- Anon84 2y agohttps://archive.ph/A5CwK https://archive.ph/A5CwK
- Findeton 2y ago[flagged]
- throw646577 2y agoHN needs one of those "Remind me in X days" things.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 2y agoYou know you cannot comment on old posts so it is rather useless.
- LeifCarrotson 2y agoIt is useful for me to help calibrate my predictions. Right now, I can look at the cabinet picks and policy statements that the incoming administration has announced and make some estimates about what impacts that will have, and I can do the same 4 years from now. But unless I remember to compare my thoughts about what might happen after reading this article to what actually happens after waiting a year, those predictions won't get any better.
- gjsman-1000 2y ago> “America’s right-wing tech bros are celebrating Donald Trump’s victory” A. Why wouldn’t they? By definition, they are right-wing. B. The headline implies that they are “taking over.” If so, from who? Perfect centrists? Leftists? Were they impartial themselves?
- Ocha 2y agoA. Who said they wouldn’t? It is stating a fact B. From people who represent mix of left, right, center, whatever
- techfeathers 2y agoI dunno, the elected representatives of the American people? Or are we done with the pretenses we still have a democracy?
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoWell, see, they won the election, so...
- giraffe_lady 2y agoWhat election did elon musk win?
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoI was pretty sure someone was going to say something like that. Musk didn't, of course. Neither did any of the cabinet members win an election for that position. Neither did any of the cabinet members or advisors of any previous administration. But Musk being appointed is a consequence of Trump's election, just like all cabinet members, advisors, and so on for every previous administration. You elect the person, you get their crew. So people like Musk are "taking over" from other people who did not themselves win an election, but were put in positions of power by those who did win elections. If you're going to argue that Musk wasn't elected (and he wasn't), then you also have to note that every person that is getting replaced by a Trump appointee is also someone who wasn't elected. I may not like the people Trump is putting in position - they, um, don't seem like A players - but this particular criticism is unfair. Trump won a democratic election; he appoints his people just like all previous administrations did.
- 2y ago
- gjsman-1000 2y ago[flagged]
- ForHackernews 2y ago[flagged]
- gjsman-1000 2y ago[flagged]
- drw85 2y agoSlander implies a false statement that caused damages.
- swores 2y agoDamages are only required (in certain countries) for a legal case of slander to be successful, they're not needed to fulfil the definition of slander. It would be slander if I said the words "HN user drw85 has never said a sentence that didn't contain racist abuse", even if my saying it has no impact on you or anyone at all. (Just as it would be libellous - the equivalent of slanderous but for written rather than spoken lies about people - if I wrote a comment here on HN accusing you of being a mass murderer, even if you don't notice the comment and no law enforcement ever consider it of interest nor any other effects.)
- drw85 2y agoWell, the definition literally says: 'a false, spoken statement about someone which damages that person's reputation, or the making of such a statement' I guess the distinction is important, because i could make a false statement that is not damaging, like 'swores has a red nose.', which might be a joke and thus is a false statement but not damaging nor slander.
- pixelatedindex 2y ago
- draw_down 2y agoOh. Who ran it before?
- f1shy 2y agoFrom people who never ever used power to benefit themselves or their families. :D
- faust201 2y agoMaybe one can pay for Greencard/visa with PayPal?
- mensetmanusman 2y agoI just hope the IT systems get upgraded.
- tmpz22 2y agoWere twitter’s systems upgraded when they fired 90% of staff?
- stackedinserter 2y agoI'm not a heavy Twitter/X user but it definitely got more updates after Musk bought it.
- mensetmanusman 2y agoYes
- giancarlostoro 2y agoIf we follow PayPal's track then its all going to be rewritten in NodeJS. I'm okay with this, it would be the most fitting for government systems, everyone loves and hates JavaScript.
- lerp-io 2y agothe government better use typescript to rewrite itself so i can have my tax return statements linted in my vs code
- pixelatedindex 2y agoGiven how much the US is a target for hackers, it’s probably a good thing that we stick to analog technology because it’s far harder to tamper with. Mailed ballots are a great example. The only thing that I really want fixed is tax returns but the lobbying is strong with that one.
- mensetmanusman 2y agoThey are already hacked, and they can’t account for nearly half a trillion in fraud/loss
- moralestapia 2y agoGood job "The Economist", it only took you 10-20 years to realize this.
- VeninVidiaVicii 2y agoSave yourself, the comments are terrible. When did Hacker News turn into Facebook?
- lopatin 2y agoWell now that there's a meta comment about the comment quality, this is more like pre-2020 YouTube.
- Hypergraphe 2y agoYeah, this has to stop now.
- numpad0 2y agoThere have been only 27 comments so far, feels a bit odd to say that.
- MichaelZuo 2y agoThat’s a lot? Can the median HN reader even hold 25 different ideas in their head at the same time without confusing them?
- VeninVidiaVicii 2y agoAnd believe as many as impossible things before breakfast!
- Dalewyn 2y agoI say this sincerely: The userbase here actually isn't that different from Reddit. There's a slightly heavier technical leaning, but otherwise most political and social positions are essentially Reddit perhaps owing to Silicon Valley roots and culture.
- MoreMoore 2y agoHonestly, I find the comments on HN to be generally more right-leaning and neo liberal than on Reddit. It's very weird and very frustrating, especially when today the right means things like denying healthcare to people and taking away womens' rights.
- seydor 2y ago3 people out of many. barely a mafia, barely a takeover
- pixelatedindex 2y agoDon’t underestimate the power of three people. Strategically done, they can create great harm.
- commandlinefan 2y agoI didn't click through the paywall, but did the article address how Biden's election was bought and paid for by the other 97% of silicon valley?
- Mountain_Skies 2y agoThat doesn't count because they're defending "Our Democracy" from those who don't agree with them. Such noble people. Snark aside, it really is interesting to see how much people are now cheering on authoritarianism as long as they think it will service their ideology (which is the only one true ideology). Of course, monsters usually get tired of being told what to do and turn on those foolish enough to create the monster in the first place... along with most everyone else. They do get to feel wonderful about their virtue in creating the monster they think will destroy anything in the way of their utopia. The feeling isn't so wonderful once their creation that they empowered turns on them (and most everyone else) and delivers misery instead of the promised nirvana.
- notTooFarGone 2y agothat 3 people hold more wealth than the bottom 10% (or ~33 million people). With how the US works, money is worth more than being a person.
- naming_the_user 2y agoThis is a daft statement though. I almost certainly have more wealth than the bottom 10% in my country because a lot of people either have 10 quid or are in debt. It makes more sense to compare to the median.
- spamizbad 2y agoOf course they're celebrating Donald Trump: he's going to cut their taxes, loosen restrictions around M&A, and create a tamer SEC and FTC. They're aging Gen-Xers, with their best years behind them, and are ready for their big cash-out.
- codedokode 2y agoBut why do they need money, aren't they rich already?
- leetrout 2y agoGreed.
- danaris 2y agoIt's not really "money" to them in the same way it is to us: it's their high score in the great game of Business.
- cg5280 2y agoI would imagine your quality of life is not significantly different with a net worth of 10 billion vs 100 billion, but at that point it's probably more about things like ego.
- bborud 2y agoNo, it isn't about a big cash-out. It is about the thing people crave once they have more money than they can physically spend on things that are fun: power.
- paxys 2y agoGonna be a fun few years in America with 20+ billionaires in every official and unofficial position of power and no checks and balances.
- karl11 2y agoThis article is basically nothing more than a headline - there is nearly zero reporting attached to it...
- salicideblock 2y agoIt looks like the reporter did as much reporting as they could do before being thrown out.
- miohtama 2y agoThat's because Elon Musk hate is very popular at the moment and thus this headline sells. Usually the Economist does better to job.
- exceptione 2y ago[flagged]
- exceptione 2y agoMight seem so, but this is nothing new - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal_Mafia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal_Mafia - https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-PayPal-Wars/Eric- https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-PayPal-Wars/Eric-... This is not "news". Not news in the sense of "actuality for eyeballs" and not news for those whose job it is to study societal trends and processes. It might be new and weird for you. You might want to take an other look, as this is the kind of information you will normally only see in academia. That it got your attention is an exceptional blip. For those in academia, they have been paying attention for years. The republic of Weimar was overthrown by captains of industry, far right and cultists that reached a shared understanding. It was not just "Hitler". So for an international community of well-meaning, informed people in academia and governments current events are highly alarming, as the transition implies lots of other things. The big picture stories do not normally reach the public, and now it almost sounds like a conspiracy theory. For some it is not a coincidence that on a Musk platform conspiracy theories are heavily boosted. At least it makes a sane conversation about the currents of our time very hard.
- louwrentius 2y agoPeter Thiel has never made it a secret that he is ‘not a fan’ of democracy. What I will find sad - but not unexpected - that there will be a few hacker news ‘temporarily embarrassed millionaires’ defending this view.
- archagon 2y agoMore like “temporarily embarrassed oligarchs.”
- xyzzy4747 2y agoThis should be flagged: it’s hyperbolic, not actual news, isn’t very interesting, and doesn’t create good discussion.
- hnburnsy 2y agoSo is this opinion or an editorial, I dont see any label. Also, why is it unsigned? Anyhoo, not sure why PayPal is important here, I haven't seen anything proposed that will directly help PayPal the company, in fact, any crypto deregulation hurts PayPal.
- gilbertbw 2y agoThe economist doesn’t do bylines. See https://medium.economist.com/why-are-the-economists-writers-anonymous-8f573745631d https://medium.economist.com/why-are-the-economists-writers-...
- hnburnsy 2y agoThanks do they make any distinction between news, opinion, and editorialization?
- monospaced 2y agoThe economist articles are unsigned: https://medium.economist.com/why-are-the-economists-writers-anonymous-8f573745631d https://medium.economist.com/why-are-the-economists-writers-...
- hnburnsy 2y agoThank you for that!
- tylerchilds 2y agothe paypal mafia is core alumni of early paypal, not paypal the software or the employees of today. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal_Mafia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal_Mafia
- hnburnsy 2y agoI get that but does it help their point or is it just a good excuses to use the term mafia?
- stevev 2y ago[flagged]
- astrange 2y agoThe Economist is a news source for business people who want to pretend they know what's happening in Africa.
- causi 2y agoWhat is this? A stub of an article with no author whose only content is "Trump is best buddies with a group of tech bros" with no comment on what that means or predictions about what policy decisions it implies. Is this AI-generated?
- swores 2y agoIt's not very long anyway, but for you to call it a stub I assume you're just saying the beginning as they want you to subscribe (pay) for access. Archive.today has the full version here: https://archive.ph/bat3k https://archive.ph/bat3k (edit: corrected link) And, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread's comments, no author's name is the policy of The Economist for all their articles.
- mike_hearn 2y agoThe full version is also a stub. The stubbiness of it is because they weren't able to talk to anyone. The moment the organizers realized they were an Economist writer they got thrown out.
- oskarkk 2y agoEven if they weren't able to talk to anyone at this particular event, they could write much more on the subject. I'm disappointed that the article "The PayPal Mafia is taking over America’s government" is just "there was some Trump event, right-wing tech bros that raised money for Trump were there, they don't like OpenAI, legacy media and the Economist, and they threw us out" and then it ends. I feel like I was baited into reading this, expecting some deeper analysis of the relationship between Trump and his new tech friends and it's consequences. Even the hate for "legacy media" is a thing that they could write much about, and that short article could be a nice introduction for a deep dive about that. But as it stands, this article has little value.
- mike_hearn 2y agoWell yeah, they could have done written many interesting and useful things but they chose to write about how awful the "male energy" was instead. That's why they now get tossed out of the places where things are happening, where once they'd have been welcomed.
- joejohnson 2y agoIt’s an interesting debate: are things less democratic now than at other points in American history? Or have the wealthy always been able to buy influence in this way? My opinion is that institutional “norms” are not being followed lately, any maybe that makes this sort of corruption more blatant, but that this relationship between business and government is a feature of American government from the start. See the hundreds of anecdotes from “Making of an Atlantic Ruling Class” (1984, Kies van der Pijl) or “A People’s History of the United States” (1980, Howard Zinn). In capitalism, democracy is window dressing, the tool for settling disputes among the upper class.
- globalnode 2y agoIve always seen the american govt really as a tool to support american business, it seems others have that opinion too.
- harimau777 2y agoIt seems to me that the Andrew Carnegies of the world had a sense of noblesse oblige which led them to try to use their wealth to make the world better. Then we had more modern businessmen who were just focused on making money. However, now with people like Musk we have billionaires who are proactively making the world worse. Don't get me wrong, billionaires have always hurt people, but at least there used to be some sort of norms that they followed.
- gruez 2y ago>It seems to me that the Andrew Carnegies of the world had a sense of noblesse oblige which led them to try to use their wealth to make the world better. Then we had more modern businessmen who were just focused on making money. However, now with people like Musk we have billionaires who are proactively making the world worse. 1. I feel like you're giving too much credit to Andrew Carnegies, who was literally a "robber baron"[1]. He might have engaged in some philanthropy, but to suggest he wasn't "just focused on making money" is viewing the past with rose tinted glasses. 2. Define "use their wealth to make the world better". Does bill gates count? What about george soros or charles koch? Elon musk ostensibly wants humans to colonize mars. Why doesn't that count as "use their wealth to make the world better"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)
- lvl155 2y agoAre they? Or the real mafia took over US healthcare long time ago? How about Visa/MC monopoly taking three pennies from every damn transaction for three decades now? I detest most of the original Paypal crew but there are far worse offenders in corporate America. Hate him or not, Musk made EVs a reality. Thiel backed some of the biggest startups in modern history. Same for Reid Hoffman. These guys are your typical American businessmen.
- wesselbindt 2y ago> These guys are your typical American businessmen Oh come on, I don't think they're that bad
- lxgr 2y ago> How about Visa/MC monopoly taking three pennies from every damn transaction If they were, who do you think would be paying for your 1-3 pennies of cashback/rewards points on every said transaction? The bulk of card payment fees goes to the issuers as interchange, not to Visa/MC or the acquiring bank or payment service provider. That's not to say that the competitive landscape in that space doesn't leave anything to be desired, but nothing will get improved by misstating the problem.
- mschuster91 2y ago> If they were, who do you think would be paying for your 1-3 pennies of cashback/rewards points on every said transaction? The bulk of card payment fees goes to the issuers as interchange, not to Visa/MC or the acquiring bank or payment service provider. Visa/MC and everyone else along the chain makes insane amounts of money even on relative pittances, simply because of the market size they corner. That's particularly obscene in Europe - we already have SEPA Direct Debit and Instant Payment, we could rework national schemes like Girocard (that worked under the precursor scheme of SEPA DD) to work with it, but instead we add VISA and MC's debit card schemes to the payment flow for no reason at all.
- lxgr 2y agoThey earn a non-negligible cut, yes, but stating that they're "taking 1-3 pennies" is simply not true (or rather, you'd have to expand your statement to "the card payments industry in collaboration with consumers"). Rewards and interchange foster a very bad market structure (it's a kind of "tragedy of the commons" in that it's the rational move to participate in this scheme as a consumer with good credit, and consumers with bad credit are ultimately paying for it), and the EU (in my view correctly) recognized that and capped most interchange rates significantly. But if you look into the details, you'll find that they did not do anything about Visa's or Mastercard's share of the card fees (at least so far). > we could rework national schemes like Girocard That would need a lot of reworking to be a real competitor. Girocard does not have a viable story for online payments (no actual processing capabilities beyond some Apple Pay only pilots, importantly no dispute resolution mechanism, which is critical for online payments, etc). It is a great low-fee payment method at the POS, though, and I'd love to see it compete EU-wide!
- ramesh31 2y agoThe Business Plot finally worked
- kylecazar 2y agoWealthy people have always had tremendous, disproportionate political influence. Now they're just almost all from tech, as opposed to finance/media/trusts.
- exceptione 2y ago1. I hope you do have a problem in general with that. 2. Those current tech oligarchs help to clear away democracy, Thiel is a leader figure who has been outspoken on this.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- fasteddie31003 2y agoI have no problem with successful people running our government. I'm dealing with people in my local government right now and they clearly are not in the PayPal Mafia. I think government was their fallback option and they are some of the dumbest people I've ever interacted with.
- djaouen 2y agoYou are missing a crucial element. Good rules must be competent AND not evil.
- mingus88 2y agoI have no problem with well-meaning, but dumb people in local government jobs. I actually have quite a large problem with successful and intelligent people taking government jobs in bad faith for the expressed purpose of ruining it for their benefit.
- gruez 2y ago>I have no problem with well-meaning, but dumb people in local government jobs. Really? Surely you can see the issue when those "well-meaning, but dumb people" start instituting dumb policies that are counterproductive? Or did you mean to say that it was preferable to smart people with bad intentions?
- daveguy 2y agoThe people instituting policies are not the same as the ones constructing and passing those policies. So the smartness of the policy is irrelevant. Obviously well-meaning is better than bad intentioned. Also the PayPal mafia is disturbingly bad-intentioned. And they have propaganda platforms that reach hundreds of millions of people.
- andy_ppp 2y agoI don’t know which type of corruption I prefer to be honest, Democratic corruption where Nancy Pelosi has $240m net worth on a salary of $233k or Donald Trump MAGA GOP corruption whose son in law received $2bn from Saudi for reasons unknown. It seems not much changes but the names and the bank account balances.
- exceptione 2y agoMaybe I can help you: You don´t have to whitewash one bad with some other bad. The USA has lots of problems. Nancy would at least still respect the constitution and adheres to the democratic process. That still leaves you with a weak system, but you should prefer that over a group of people that won't respect the boundaries of the system.
- tzs 2y agoThat $240m is the combined net worth of her and her husband. It's not all that much considering that he founded and has run a successful real estate and venture capital investment firm for over 40 years, and considering that they are both in their 80s which means they have had up to 60 years of investments.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y agoBanned from PayPal long ago. Is my citizenship at stake now?
- bagels 2y agoI don't think the PayPal Mafia are concerned with what goes on at PayPal now.
- retskrad 2y agoAfter reading Yuval Noah Harari’s book ‘Sapiens’, it made me realize how little humans have changed, even as we approach creating AGI. We still form tribes, vilifying anyone who doesn’t conform to our rules. A dissenting opinion is strictly forbidden. Elon Musk, on the verge of running two trillion-dollar companies (Tesla and soon in the future SpaceX; xAI might become one also), is single handily driving humans to become interstellar species. Yet, because he doesn’t align with certain ideologies like transgender issues or immigration, he’s labeled a fascist and his achievements dismissed. Despite searching, I find no evidence of legal or moral wrongdoing on his part—just bureaucrats finding ways to stand in the way, like the Delaware judge repeatedly undermining shareholder-approved decisions on his pay package. Musk may be arrogant, childish, or linked to the manosphere, but his contributions far outweigh his flaws. It’s not even close.
- eesmith 2y agoYour "interstellar species" should be "interplanetary species" as we have no way to get people to another star. We totally lack the ability to make an independent biosphere, and without that the term "interplanetary" is rather meaningless. The Trieste bathyscaphe made it to the bottom of the ocean but we do not have underwater colonies, nor seasteading. Even our colonies on Antarctica are highly subsidized national prestige projects. If "multiplanetary" is something like "can get to another planet and back" then the Manned Venus flyby proposal shows we could have done that with 1970s technology. But there's a reason no one visited the Challenger Deep in the 52 years between Trieste and the Deepsea Challenge - remote exploration is cheaper and safer. We haven't even gotten someone out to the Moon's orbit since 1973.
- exceptione 2y agoHacker News, I smell the fruits of yearlong training by social media, they have ripened. Many here seem to think there are only 2 choices. This is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma Please remind that his is just a fallacy. There are many more employed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy#), but the fake binary choice is highly effective wrt USA topics. The USA has always had big flaws in its democratic constitution. They always has struggled with oligarchy, even the press is a vehicle of super wealthy owners. This article presents you with a cold shower. That does not mean that other things got less bad. You are not helped by whatabouttisms and false balance. Focus on what you think is right. Fight for change.
- pixelatedindex 2y agoI love voting third party, mostly because my state is super blue and I can do so. If you’re left in a super red state, then you really only have one option. This means that if you want to change the dichotomy a critical mass of third party voting needs to be achieved, which is becoming harder and harder. So in this case, focusing on what you think is right - which might be something that has no representation - leads to lower voter turnout, or people splitting the vote. I believe this is a huge factor in Trump’s second victory.
- exceptione 2y agoThe curse of a Two Party System. Maybe you might have a bigger chance to force a change inside a party, but currently only the Dems do have something that resemble a political party. Voters have no say in GOP, even the GOP leadership themself doesn't have anymore. Last election there was a large out-walk, overtake is now complete. Just a few people behind the MAGA facade call the shots atm.
- draw_down 2y ago[dead]
- dzsekijo 2y agoI don't fully get the story. Was it Calanacis who ditched the Econ reporter? He is the one among the All-iners who voted Harris. See https://audioboom.com/posts/8589911-bonus-episode-with-jason-calacanis-the-civil-war-in-silicon-valley https://audioboom.com/posts/8589911-bonus-episode-with-jason...
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y agoThis brief note tells of an x-mas party organised by the "All-In" podcast at Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco on December 7. A correspondent from Economist was there and "was made to feel most unwelcome". But before she was kicked out,^1 she witnessed "a riotous celebration of how a clique of billionaires, the so-called PayPal Mafia, helped cinch Donald Trump's election vicory and has taken Washington by storm". The title of the article is taken from a comment by a party attendee, Aaron Levie, founder of Box: "The PayPal Mafia's takeover of the government is now complete, so good work on that." 1. When she "sought a word with Jason Calacanis, a co-host dressed as a jovial Santa Claus on stage, he flew into a rage, shouting "Don't talk to journalists!". A few minutes later she was kicked out.