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I’ve had a Yukon with supercruise for 18 months. It is fantastic for highway driving, particularly, we’ve driven it west from Tennessee to Colorado and Florida.

I’ve had a Yukon with supercruise for 18 months. It is fantastic for highway driving, particularly, we’ve driven it west from Tennessee to Colorado and Florida. Other comments claiming it’s the same as other standard driver-assist packages are incorrect. Totally hands free, no “ping pong” with the lanes. That said, when trying to BUY a supercruise vehicle, the sales guys were clueless, I had to review the stat sheets of each car to see which ones did or did not have it. GM is treating this technology as “surveys say 2% of the market wants a self driving vehicle” (incorrect question) compared to “install on every vehicle as an available subscription, let the sales team earn their way.” I’m sure the tech is expensive, but it can’t be that much more at the OEM level. I also have a Tesla with FSD. FSD is truly amazing but still struggles with edge cases like, my office has two entrances, one is blocked by barrels, it tries to turn into the barrels every time.

Workaccount2 2y ago
From my understanding, super cruise only works on pre-approved roads/road sections, whereas FSD works just about anywhere. When I last checked my commute to work, the main highway I take becomes unsupported half way to work, despite it being the same bland typical highway layout. I really don't want to buy a Tesla, but from what I can tell, nobody has anything close to what FSD offers.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  > nobody has anything close to what FSD offers. From what I read about it, you're absolutely right. Down to the point of unwanted veering towards road dividers and other vehicles.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - hedora 2y ago
    > Down to the point of unwanted veering towards road dividers and other vehicles. Our 2024 Kia does this every 10-20 miles on average. You don't even have to enable lane assist. It also randomly decides to weaken the regenerative braking, or switch out of single pedal mode. If you disable enough of the safety features it stops doing these things, but, for instance, that means you can't have blind spot detection that works when you're going over 5mph and a working steering column at the same time.
    - _ea1k 2y ago
      Yeah, people act like some Tesla problems are bad, but I've certainly used systems that are worse. Just in a few miles, I've had a Nissan accelerate towards stopped traffic aggressively enough to trigger its own collision warning. It'll also fly try to drive off the road in relatively shallow curves, triggering its own lane departure warnings. The Tesla system isn't perfect, but it is far from unique in being imperfect.
      - bayindirh 2y ago
        That's true. I took a jab specifically at Tesla, because it's generally framed as the "leader of the pack and problem free to the point that you can sleep in it". FSD is a very hard problem, and the systems deployed are at best alpha level. These things should be "hyped responsibly".
        zardo 2y ago
        Not paying attention while FSD drives for you ended with a motorcyclist crushed to death under a Tesla, and a manslaughter charge for the driver near me this summer.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- tosser2084 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - dartos 2y ago
    A lot of crazy in here, but this is the lowest hanging fruit. > and X is quite literally the only truly free and open space > free My brother, you need to literally pay money or your tweets get buried by those who do. > open Since taking control of the company, musk made it a closed platform. You now need an account to view tweets, before you did not.
  - tosser2084 2y ago
    [flagged]
- ethagknight 2y ago
  SuperCruise and FSD are not comparable. SuperCruise does what it claims to do, keep it up the middle on listed corridors. Most highways and interstates are eligible. I love both systems. FSD is truly almost there for unsupervised, point to point driving. People want to virtue signal and complain about Tesla but it is an amazing piece of hardware being mass produced today. My car is 3 years old.
  - spankalee 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - misiti3780 2y ago
      a legitimate stance held by idiots* --- if politics consumes your life that much, you should seek help
    - sgerenser 2y ago
      Indeed, and I've held an anti-Elon position since well before he bought Twitter and went all MAGA. Personally, I don't want to support someone who continuously lies and breaks securities laws with impunity. The MAGA stuff is just icing on the cake.
  - travisporter 2y ago
    Any thoughts on OpenPilot? I’ve been hearing good things but would be cool to do a comparison.
  - goalonetwo 2y ago
    I worked in this industry. No, FSD is not almost there. Not even close. What matters is the long tails of events. You might "feel" it is almost there because it gets it right 99.9% of the time but that is still way too many accidents and injuries in the long run. And the work to go from 99.9% to 99.9999% is 1000x more complicated.
    - vlovich123 2y ago
mlinhares 2y ago
It’s wild to me anyone would think turning on barrels is an edge case.
- goalonetwo 2y ago
  This i what is so tricky with Self Driving. People "feel" it is almost there because most of their rides are mostly ok. However to make a system truly driverless you need to master the long tails of difficult events and FSD is nowhere even close to do that. Going from 99.9% to 99.99999% is what makes a system truly driverless and where most of the work is. Waymo is way way ahead of FSD for this.
  - floxy 2y ago
    I know essentially nothing about machine learning, nor about what approaches to ML that Tesla or Waymo are using. Is there a Metcalfe-type effect possible here? Where the better FSD becomes, the more people use it, finding more edge-cases, so the driving get better, so more people start to use it. With the end result that the learning starts to get better/faster with time, in a positive-feedback like mechanism?
    - friendzis 2y ago
      The answer is very strictly no. Your comment/question seems to assume that somehow accurate classification of performance is possible, which is demonstrably false assumption. First, if somehow system-internal watchdog was able to detect erroneous outputs for training, it would also be able to stop those outputs propagating to control system live, leading to zero errors. Such a watchdog requires self driving to be quantified analytically, leaving implementation entirely testable and therefore control system not passing the testsuite (i.e. exhibiting erroneous behavior, i.e. still having "edge cases") not deployable in public. Many words to say that that in practice with driving being somewhat loosely defined you need humans in the training loop. Second, vehicle operators are not only unqualified to accurately monitor behavior of these autonomous systems, in part due to not being formally trained on safety systems in general and the system they are monitoring in particular, but on top of that incentivized to underreport erroneous output. My prediction has been that we are going to see increased number of accidents with ADAS deployments, not less, before the number can start dwindling.

Workaccount2 2y ago

From my understanding, super cruise only works on pre-approved roads/road sections, whereas FSD works just about anywhere. When I last checked my commute to work, the main highway I take becomes unsupported half way to work, despite it being the same bland typical highway layout. I really don't want to buy a Tesla, but from what I can tell, nobody has anything close to what FSD offers.

bayindirh 2y ago
> nobody has anything close to what FSD offers. From what I read about it, you're absolutely right. Down to the point of unwanted veering towards road dividers and other vehicles.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- hedora 2y ago
  > Down to the point of unwanted veering towards road dividers and other vehicles. Our 2024 Kia does this every 10-20 miles on average. You don't even have to enable lane assist. It also randomly decides to weaken the regenerative braking, or switch out of single pedal mode. If you disable enough of the safety features it stops doing these things, but, for instance, that means you can't have blind spot detection that works when you're going over 5mph and a working steering column at the same time.
  - _ea1k 2y ago
    Yeah, people act like some Tesla problems are bad, but I've certainly used systems that are worse. Just in a few miles, I've had a Nissan accelerate towards stopped traffic aggressively enough to trigger its own collision warning. It'll also fly try to drive off the road in relatively shallow curves, triggering its own lane departure warnings. The Tesla system isn't perfect, but it is far from unique in being imperfect.
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      That's true. I took a jab specifically at Tesla, because it's generally framed as the "leader of the pack and problem free to the point that you can sleep in it". FSD is a very hard problem, and the systems deployed are at best alpha level. These things should be "hyped responsibly".
      - zardo 2y ago
        Not paying attention while FSD drives for you ended with a motorcyclist crushed to death under a Tesla, and a manslaughter charge for the driver near me this summer.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tosser2084 2y ago
[flagged]
- dartos 2y ago
  A lot of crazy in here, but this is the lowest hanging fruit. > and X is quite literally the only truly free and open space > free My brother, you need to literally pay money or your tweets get buried by those who do. > open Since taking control of the company, musk made it a closed platform. You now need an account to view tweets, before you did not.
- tosser2084 2y ago
  [flagged]
ethagknight 2y ago
SuperCruise and FSD are not comparable. SuperCruise does what it claims to do, keep it up the middle on listed corridors. Most highways and interstates are eligible. I love both systems. FSD is truly almost there for unsupervised, point to point driving. People want to virtue signal and complain about Tesla but it is an amazing piece of hardware being mass produced today. My car is 3 years old.
- spankalee 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - misiti3780 2y ago
    a legitimate stance held by idiots* --- if politics consumes your life that much, you should seek help
  - sgerenser 2y ago
    Indeed, and I've held an anti-Elon position since well before he bought Twitter and went all MAGA. Personally, I don't want to support someone who continuously lies and breaks securities laws with impunity. The MAGA stuff is just icing on the cake.
- travisporter 2y ago
  Any thoughts on OpenPilot? I’ve been hearing good things but would be cool to do a comparison.
- goalonetwo 2y ago
  I worked in this industry. No, FSD is not almost there. Not even close. What matters is the long tails of events. You might "feel" it is almost there because it gets it right 99.9% of the time but that is still way too many accidents and injuries in the long run. And the work to go from 99.9% to 99.9999% is 1000x more complicated.
  - vlovich123 2y ago

mlinhares 2y ago

It’s wild to me anyone would think turning on barrels is an edge case.

goalonetwo 2y ago
This i what is so tricky with Self Driving. People "feel" it is almost there because most of their rides are mostly ok. However to make a system truly driverless you need to master the long tails of difficult events and FSD is nowhere even close to do that. Going from 99.9% to 99.99999% is what makes a system truly driverless and where most of the work is. Waymo is way way ahead of FSD for this.
- floxy 2y ago
  I know essentially nothing about machine learning, nor about what approaches to ML that Tesla or Waymo are using. Is there a Metcalfe-type effect possible here? Where the better FSD becomes, the more people use it, finding more edge-cases, so the driving get better, so more people start to use it. With the end result that the learning starts to get better/faster with time, in a positive-feedback like mechanism?
  - friendzis 2y ago
    The answer is very strictly no. Your comment/question seems to assume that somehow accurate classification of performance is possible, which is demonstrably false assumption. First, if somehow system-internal watchdog was able to detect erroneous outputs for training, it would also be able to stop those outputs propagating to control system live, leading to zero errors. Such a watchdog requires self driving to be quantified analytically, leaving implementation entirely testable and therefore control system not passing the testsuite (i.e. exhibiting erroneous behavior, i.e. still having "edge cases") not deployable in public. Many words to say that that in practice with driving being somewhat loosely defined you need humans in the training loop. Second, vehicle operators are not only unqualified to accurately monitor behavior of these autonomous systems, in part due to not being formally trained on safety systems in general and the system they are monitoring in particular, but on top of that incentivized to underreport erroneous output. My prediction has been that we are going to see increased number of accidents with ADAS deployments, not less, before the number can start dwindling.