4 ms·

Overall though, US scores in math & science are excellent and near the top of the charts: https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1864412480677576816 https://x.com

Overall though, US scores in math & science are excellent and near the top of the charts: https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1864412480677576816 https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1864412480677576816

vecter 2y ago
Wait, the US overall is ranked 18th out of approximately 50 countries (on the first chart for Math + Science). Obviously some American demographics are doing better, but across all demographics, the US scores are not excellent and not near the top.
- bpodgursky 2y ago
  The point is that euopean americans perform strongly compared to europeans, asian americans perform strongly among asians, and black americans perform strongly compared to majority-black countries. Each demographic as the top of demographic peers internationally.
  - carabiner 2y ago
    Yes, and I don't think this is racism any more than other DEI/education initiatives that focus on one demographic more vs. another. Everyone talks about trying to get more blacks into gifted programs or selective high schools like Stuyvesant. This is scoping the problem, nothing more.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - knallfrosch 2y ago
    > Each demographic as the top of demographic peers internationally. Does this hold true if we do the same for other countries?
    - bpodgursky 2y ago
      Most countries don't release fine-grained data but yes when you compare against other countries that are essentially ethnostates – Japan, Poland, few others.
- TeaBrain 2y ago
  According to the chart, the American scores amongst the internationally high performing demographic categories are exceptional. The overall score is only dragged down due to demographic categories that perform low internationally.
  - thomassmith65 2y ago
    It's nice that that partition (ie: ethnicity) seems to cheer people up (or perhaps not, depending on how one thinks about it). On the other hand, there's probably some partition - even if it's preference of {boxers, briefs, lingerie, 'commando'} - for any academic field by which one nation is better for each part. It is possible that every group of immigrants to America is better at baking strudel than its corresponding group in Germany. Still more likely to find good German strudel.
    - carabiner 2y ago
      > On the other hand, there's probably some partition - even if it's preference of {boxers, briefs, lingerie, 'commando'} - for any academic field by which one nation is better for each part. This is not at all self-evident and if any such factor so strongly correlated with academics, it would be born out in real life and society. "Smarter people like vanilla over chocolate ice cream." The only reason race has come to matter so much is that it IS such a massive factor on one's life experience, whereas having brown hair vs. blonde hair does not and causes far less controversy.
      - thomassmith65 2y ago
        The list of attributes that correlate to academic performance is long and picking from them is arbitrary. Eg: { People who study, people who cut class } Country A: one freak Nobel laureate who likes to study, and a million citizens who scrape by but cut class. Country B is the inverse: a million studious citizens, and one class-cutting deadbeat. A's single Nobel laureate scores better at Math than than B's million nerds, and A's million deadbeats score better than B's sole deadbeat. Now country A is better at Math.
pie420 2y ago
18th out of 50 is not excellent for a HEGEMON country that essentially rules europe, south america, and half of asia. I imagine Britain was better than 18th out of 50 during the height of the british empire.
- slt2021 2y ago
  as a hegemon, USA is the firs tin number of victims (murdered and displaced) by the American weapons and ammo. This is a single undisputed thing about the American exceptionalism, the mind-boggling efficiency of the state-organized violence
  - int_19h 2y ago
    States by and large originated as a means to organize violence at scale, so it's not surprising that the most successful ones historically are also the best at that specifically.
jdprgm 2y ago
It's strange to me that relative performance would even be a primary factor for defining performance as "excellent". You could be number one on the list and still deeply unsettled if performance is dropping or stagnant. I would want to focus on generational improvement targeting say 10%-20% improvement across the board every 10 years or so.
tzs 2y ago
Note: the poster's point at that link is spread over several consecutive posts. If you are not logged into an X account it will only show the first. You can see the whole series by changing the x.com in the URL to xcancel.com.
lern_too_spel 2y ago
American Asians perform worse than Asian Asians in non-destitute countries.

vecter 2y ago

Wait, the US overall is ranked 18th out of approximately 50 countries (on the first chart for Math + Science). Obviously some American demographics are doing better, but across all demographics, the US scores are not excellent and not near the top.

bpodgursky 2y ago
The point is that euopean americans perform strongly compared to europeans, asian americans perform strongly among asians, and black americans perform strongly compared to majority-black countries. Each demographic as the top of demographic peers internationally.
- carabiner 2y ago
  Yes, and I don't think this is racism any more than other DEI/education initiatives that focus on one demographic more vs. another. Everyone talks about trying to get more blacks into gifted programs or selective high schools like Stuyvesant. This is scoping the problem, nothing more.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- knallfrosch 2y ago
  > Each demographic as the top of demographic peers internationally. Does this hold true if we do the same for other countries?
  - bpodgursky 2y ago
    Most countries don't release fine-grained data but yes when you compare against other countries that are essentially ethnostates – Japan, Poland, few others.
TeaBrain 2y ago
According to the chart, the American scores amongst the internationally high performing demographic categories are exceptional. The overall score is only dragged down due to demographic categories that perform low internationally.
- thomassmith65 2y ago
  It's nice that that partition (ie: ethnicity) seems to cheer people up (or perhaps not, depending on how one thinks about it). On the other hand, there's probably some partition - even if it's preference of {boxers, briefs, lingerie, 'commando'} - for any academic field by which one nation is better for each part. It is possible that every group of immigrants to America is better at baking strudel than its corresponding group in Germany. Still more likely to find good German strudel.
  - carabiner 2y ago
    > On the other hand, there's probably some partition - even if it's preference of {boxers, briefs, lingerie, 'commando'} - for any academic field by which one nation is better for each part. This is not at all self-evident and if any such factor so strongly correlated with academics, it would be born out in real life and society. "Smarter people like vanilla over chocolate ice cream." The only reason race has come to matter so much is that it IS such a massive factor on one's life experience, whereas having brown hair vs. blonde hair does not and causes far less controversy.
    - thomassmith65 2y ago
      The list of attributes that correlate to academic performance is long and picking from them is arbitrary. Eg: { People who study, people who cut class } Country A: one freak Nobel laureate who likes to study, and a million citizens who scrape by but cut class. Country B is the inverse: a million studious citizens, and one class-cutting deadbeat. A's single Nobel laureate scores better at Math than than B's million nerds, and A's million deadbeats score better than B's sole deadbeat. Now country A is better at Math.

pie420 2y ago

18th out of 50 is not excellent for a HEGEMON country that essentially rules europe, south america, and half of asia. I imagine Britain was better than 18th out of 50 during the height of the british empire.

slt2021 2y ago
as a hegemon, USA is the firs tin number of victims (murdered and displaced) by the American weapons and ammo. This is a single undisputed thing about the American exceptionalism, the mind-boggling efficiency of the state-organized violence
- int_19h 2y ago
  States by and large originated as a means to organize violence at scale, so it's not surprising that the most successful ones historically are also the best at that specifically.

jdprgm 2y ago

It's strange to me that relative performance would even be a primary factor for defining performance as "excellent". You could be number one on the list and still deeply unsettled if performance is dropping or stagnant. I would want to focus on generational improvement targeting say 10%-20% improvement across the board every 10 years or so.

tzs 2y ago

Note: the poster's point at that link is spread over several consecutive posts. If you are not logged into an X account it will only show the first. You can see the whole series by changing the x.com in the URL to xcancel.com.

lern_too_spel 2y ago

American Asians perform worse than Asian Asians in non-destitute countries.