4 ms·

When you remove profit from the equation, you also remove the incentive to increase supply. Uhhh, what? What kind of wongo bongo thinking is this?

Ajedi32 2y ago
What other incentive is there? There might be some willing to go deep into debt in medical school so they can work for free out of the goodness of their hearts, but that's a vanishingly small number of people.
- Daishiman 2y ago
  And yet apparently countries all over the world have to artificially raise the bar for med school because so many people want to be doctors for incentives aside from just the money.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    What are you talking about? Almost every country has a doctor shortage and Doctors are still well paid professionals there.
    - Daishiman 2y ago
      People don't go bankrupt at anywhere near the rate Americans do for medical reasons. People don't constantly bring up dealing with insurance as the #1 burden during medical procedures.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        sure, but that has nothing to do with your last statement, which was nonsense. That's like saying 2+2=5, then when someone points it out, saying the sky is blue.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
Would you go to work without being paid? I wouldn't. The same is true for those working in healthcare. United healthcare wouldn't even exist if there was a ton of people who wanted to found, fund, and work at nonprofit health insurance companies.
- gambiting 2y ago
  >>Would you go to work without being paid? I wouldn't. Do you think doctors and nurses work for free in countries with socialized healthcare? They do get paid. A lot if you're a specialist too - it's a very lucrative field to be in. Admittedly, not for everyone - nurses and junior doctors usually don't get paid very well, but it's my understanding that in US it's not like these professions make bank either. >>if there was a ton of people who wanted to found, fund, and work at nonprofit health insurance companies. That's the whole point that Americans are missing - you don't need the insurance companies in the first place, if the entire system is owned by the public. You go to a hospital, you get an operation done and that's it, at no point is there anyone sitting there are processing your "claim" - if the operation is one allowed by the system(and it almost certainly is) then it's just done and the system pays for it from general taxation budget. No one negotiates rates with the hospital, argues about your excess or premiums or in or out of network coverage. Health insurance is something you get for travelling abroad, like if you have an accident while skiing and need a helicopter to get you out, not for visiting a doctor or a hospital.
  - thegrimmest 2y ago
    It’s still an insurance system though, whether it’s publicly owned or privately. There are still bureaucrats who decide what is covered and what is not, and they make that decision for the entire population. Things like cutting edge cancer treatments (often developed in the US) are many years late arriving to public healthcare systems. And many expensive treatments are simply not covered, or covered as second or third line (eg. immune therapy), when patients in the US with appropriately good insurance receive them as first line with far better outcomes. > No one negotiates rates with the hospital No one negotiates period. Coverage decisions are made unilaterally by government officials, and services that those officials deem too expensive are simply not offered. The same issue exists with medical equipment. The wait time for an MRI is absurd in eg. Canada because government only funded so many machines. In the states there are simply more machines, because supply was more elastic, and more freely able to meet demand.

Ajedi32 2y ago

What other incentive is there? There might be some willing to go deep into debt in medical school so they can work for free out of the goodness of their hearts, but that's a vanishingly small number of people.

Daishiman 2y ago
And yet apparently countries all over the world have to artificially raise the bar for med school because so many people want to be doctors for incentives aside from just the money.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  What are you talking about? Almost every country has a doctor shortage and Doctors are still well paid professionals there.
  - Daishiman 2y ago
    People don't go bankrupt at anywhere near the rate Americans do for medical reasons. People don't constantly bring up dealing with insurance as the #1 burden during medical procedures.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      sure, but that has nothing to do with your last statement, which was nonsense. That's like saying 2+2=5, then when someone points it out, saying the sky is blue.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

Would you go to work without being paid? I wouldn't. The same is true for those working in healthcare. United healthcare wouldn't even exist if there was a ton of people who wanted to found, fund, and work at nonprofit health insurance companies.

gambiting 2y ago
>>Would you go to work without being paid? I wouldn't. Do you think doctors and nurses work for free in countries with socialized healthcare? They do get paid. A lot if you're a specialist too - it's a very lucrative field to be in. Admittedly, not for everyone - nurses and junior doctors usually don't get paid very well, but it's my understanding that in US it's not like these professions make bank either. >>if there was a ton of people who wanted to found, fund, and work at nonprofit health insurance companies. That's the whole point that Americans are missing - you don't need the insurance companies in the first place, if the entire system is owned by the public. You go to a hospital, you get an operation done and that's it, at no point is there anyone sitting there are processing your "claim" - if the operation is one allowed by the system(and it almost certainly is) then it's just done and the system pays for it from general taxation budget. No one negotiates rates with the hospital, argues about your excess or premiums or in or out of network coverage. Health insurance is something you get for travelling abroad, like if you have an accident while skiing and need a helicopter to get you out, not for visiting a doctor or a hospital.
- thegrimmest 2y ago
  It’s still an insurance system though, whether it’s publicly owned or privately. There are still bureaucrats who decide what is covered and what is not, and they make that decision for the entire population. Things like cutting edge cancer treatments (often developed in the US) are many years late arriving to public healthcare systems. And many expensive treatments are simply not covered, or covered as second or third line (eg. immune therapy), when patients in the US with appropriately good insurance receive them as first line with far better outcomes. > No one negotiates rates with the hospital No one negotiates period. Coverage decisions are made unilaterally by government officials, and services that those officials deem too expensive are simply not offered. The same issue exists with medical equipment. The wait time for an MRI is absurd in eg. Canada because government only funded so many machines. In the states there are simply more machines, because supply was more elastic, and more freely able to meet demand.