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Don't be so sure. It's interesting how quickly the places where this ghoulish view is proliferating (Reddit) have forgotten what they learned a month ago. The

Don't be so sure. It's interesting how quickly the places where this ghoulish view is proliferating (Reddit) have forgotten what they learned a month ago. The Internet is not reality and online posts are not a representative sample of the population. Instead, every survey of Americans shows around 80% are satisfied with their health coverage.

bbqfog 2y ago
No, "every survey" doesn't suggest 80% of Americans are satisfied with their health coverage. Can you site this data? Every person I've ever met IRL has hated the health industry with a burning passion. As you would expect given the exorbitant prices on insurance and care. Also, no one enjoys having their employer hold so much leverage in their life as for most people health insurance is tied to their job.
- threemux 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - bbqfog 2y ago
    That's a health industry think tank: https://www.kff.org/board-of-trustees/ https://www.kff.org/board-of-trustees/
    - threemux 2y ago
      [flagged]
- bc569a80a344f9c 2y ago
  https://news.gallup.com/poll/468176/americans-sour-healthcare-quality.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/468176/americans-sour-healthcar... There’s a huge difference between how people view health care in general, and their own health insurance. According to the linked survey, in 2023 it was notable that only 72% of people had a favorable view of their own health insurance. In recent decades that has indeed sat around 80%, as OP claimed. Again, that’s their _own_ insurance, while views of health insurance in general are quite worse, similar to how most people think congress is a shitshow yet rank their own representatives much higher. It’s an interesting dissonance.
  - laimewhisps 2y ago
    According to that poll only 65% are happy with their health care coverage (page 8): https://news.gallup.com/file/poll/654047/2024_12_06%20Healthcare%20System%20Topline%20and%20Tabs.pdf https://news.gallup.com/file/poll/654047/2024_12_06%20Health... On page 5 you can see 79% are dissatisfied with the cost of health care.
    - bc569a80a344f9c 2y ago
      You’re right, I only looked at basic graphs and confused “the quality of health care you receive” (the numbers I gave) vs “your health care coverage”. Still, that’s a huge dissonance between personal experience and opinion on the nationwide state of things, and I find that interesting because I doubt we can fix it unless a significant majority of people find it enough of a personal priority to vote that way.
      - wat10000 2y ago
        I’m not sure how meaningful that is. I’d rate my coverage as excellent. My out of pocket costs are low, lots of in network providers, etc. At the same time I do not like my insurance company at all. They have stupid issues that I’m forced to resolve, and I definitely don’t look forward to dealing with billing after a major event. I want to see a poll specifically on “how much do you like your health insurance company?” Not your coverage, not your insurance, but specifically the company.
      - hamburglar 2y ago
        I suspect one complication in this type of polling is “relative to what?” I hate my insurance company with a passion and I think they are part of a perverse system of incentives that wildly inflated healthcare costs, but they are a dream compared to my last company. Am I happy? Depends on how you ask.
    - cyberax 2y ago
      That's probably because 65% of people have no real chronic medical conditions and/or are on Medicare. I'm pretty well-off, so I can just throw money at my problems, and avoid dealing with insurance nonsense (denials and delays). So I'm fine with my health care coverage. I'm not at all fine with my insurance company. And I'm actually in a very privileged position because I helped select this insurer for my company.
griomnib 2y ago
If they aren’t sick and haven’t had to use the system for life saving care, then the numbers from the same surveys you cite are VASTLY different. Please don’t cherry pick misleading data.
- 1123581321 2y ago
  Can you please link to the study that breaks out respondents by their health? I haven’t seen what you two are referring to.
- threemux 2y ago
  I guess you and I have different definitions of vastly. Even 68% people who say they are in "fair" or "poor" health say they're satisfied: https://www.kff.org/private-insurance/poll-finding/kff-survey-of-consumer-experiences-with-health-insurance/ https://www.kff.org/private-insurance/poll-finding/kff-surve... There's nothing misleading about the KFF data, which has been going for quite some time now. If you recall (I know it seems like a lifetime ago), Obama got in trouble for lying that people could keep their plan if they liked it. If so many hated their plan, why did he pay such a heavy political price? Why would he even have to lie in the first place?
  - tumult 2y ago
    68% is horrible
    - gruez 2y ago
      Says who? For instance this source says that healthcare is near the middle of the pack when it comes to NPS (which is basically how many people are satisified minus people who aren't), and are ahead of "internet software and services". https://www.retently.com/blog/good-net-promoter-score/ https://www.retently.com/blog/good-net-promoter-score/
- therealdrag0 2y ago
  The context is about how the jury would feel about it, which includes people who aren’t and haven’t been sick. So the other commenter’s data is more correct and your attempt to partition out a subset of demographics is what is misleading.
iwontberude 2y ago
Ghoulish? Internet? Have you spoken to regular people not terminally online? They have no sympathy for the CEO. I had sympathy for him as a human and a worker, but his behavior was beyond the pale and unfortunately rule of law doesn’t exist in the US.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Have you spoken to regular people not terminally online? They have no sympathy for the CEO Everyone I have spoken to has no sympathy for him as a CEO but sympathy for him as a human. He is wrong and the healthcare system is broken. But this was also murder. If your sense of empathy is so fucked that you’re pro murder, you need to speak to a professional. (If you’re struggling with this and don’t want to let hate turn you into a monster, consider the difference between believing someone deserved what was coming to them and supporting that which delivered it.)
  - DangitBobby 2y ago
    I don't know a single real person who felt bad for him.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Right. I also know several people who know no pro-abortion people, zero gay people, and nobody who is pro-Israel and not a flaming racist. We’re each in our bubbles.
  - laimewhisps 2y ago
    He was killing people though, and if his death stops that, it's a net positive. His life is not worth more than the thousands he has ended for personal profit.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > if his death stops that, it's a net positive One, it doesn’t. Two, this applies in loads of cases depending on your individual morality. (Intentionally-spicy takes: abortion providers. Medical researchers who experiment on animals. Farmers. Meat eaters. Anyone American because of our foreign military interventions.)
gopher_space 2y ago
> Instead, every survey of Americans shows around 80% are satisfied with their health coverage. Weird how heath coverage is the only thing in America 80% of the people are satisfied with. It's such a nice round number, too. I'm assuming it's men only, or were women polled before Roe v. Wade was dumped?
- loeg 2y ago
  GP is rounding. It's an approximate centroid of a variety of numbers over time, but pretty consistently in the 70s or 80s.
  - gopher_space 2y ago
    1) What else in America enjoys an 80% satisfaction rate, broadly speaking? 2) Why didn't this number change after women's healthcare took a massive hit? I'm assuming this is like calculating unemployment rates, where you need to play around with your definitions. Like, services no longer being available can't factor into "satisfaction" in any way. More concretely, if you have two pharmacies in town and one of them closes, will polling accurately reflect the 0% satisfaction rate engendered? Or is this where we start splitting hairs.
    - loeg 2y ago
      > What else in America enjoys an 80% satisfaction rate, broadly speaking? https://thehill.com/changing-america/3870943-americans-largely-satisfied-with-personal-lives-survey/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/3870943-americans-large... > Although personal life satisfaction varies based on income, age, marital status and education level, between 81 percent and 90 percent of Americans are satisfied with their own family life, current housing situation, job, education, community and personal health. > Slightly lower levels — between 71 percent and 77 percent — said the same about the amount of leisure time they have, their household income and standard of living. So, ya know, lots of things that aren't super politicized. > Why didn't this number change after women's healthcare took a massive hit? (1) This question is asking about the quality of healthcare you received, not your perception of healthcare for others. A minority of women are directly impacted through the healthcare system by Dobbs (2022) (as opposed to indirect or non-healthcare effects). (2) Some of the novel abortion restrictions post-Dobbs happened later? The most recent point on this graph is 2022. So it may just not show up yet until 2023/2024 numbers. (3) The 2022 satisfaction number is slightly lower than the 2021 number (72% vs 76%). You could plausibly attribute some of that to Dobbs.

bbqfog 2y ago

No, "every survey" doesn't suggest 80% of Americans are satisfied with their health coverage. Can you site this data? Every person I've ever met IRL has hated the health industry with a burning passion. As you would expect given the exorbitant prices on insurance and care. Also, no one enjoys having their employer hold so much leverage in their life as for most people health insurance is tied to their job.

threemux 2y ago
[flagged]
- bbqfog 2y ago
  That's a health industry think tank: https://www.kff.org/board-of-trustees/ https://www.kff.org/board-of-trustees/
  - threemux 2y ago
    [flagged]
bc569a80a344f9c 2y ago
https://news.gallup.com/poll/468176/americans-sour-healthcare-quality.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/468176/americans-sour-healthcar... There’s a huge difference between how people view health care in general, and their own health insurance. According to the linked survey, in 2023 it was notable that only 72% of people had a favorable view of their own health insurance. In recent decades that has indeed sat around 80%, as OP claimed. Again, that’s their _own_ insurance, while views of health insurance in general are quite worse, similar to how most people think congress is a shitshow yet rank their own representatives much higher. It’s an interesting dissonance.
- laimewhisps 2y ago
  According to that poll only 65% are happy with their health care coverage (page 8): https://news.gallup.com/file/poll/654047/2024_12_06%20Healthcare%20System%20Topline%20and%20Tabs.pdf https://news.gallup.com/file/poll/654047/2024_12_06%20Health... On page 5 you can see 79% are dissatisfied with the cost of health care.
  - bc569a80a344f9c 2y ago
    You’re right, I only looked at basic graphs and confused “the quality of health care you receive” (the numbers I gave) vs “your health care coverage”. Still, that’s a huge dissonance between personal experience and opinion on the nationwide state of things, and I find that interesting because I doubt we can fix it unless a significant majority of people find it enough of a personal priority to vote that way.
    - wat10000 2y ago
      I’m not sure how meaningful that is. I’d rate my coverage as excellent. My out of pocket costs are low, lots of in network providers, etc. At the same time I do not like my insurance company at all. They have stupid issues that I’m forced to resolve, and I definitely don’t look forward to dealing with billing after a major event. I want to see a poll specifically on “how much do you like your health insurance company?” Not your coverage, not your insurance, but specifically the company.
    - hamburglar 2y ago
      I suspect one complication in this type of polling is “relative to what?” I hate my insurance company with a passion and I think they are part of a perverse system of incentives that wildly inflated healthcare costs, but they are a dream compared to my last company. Am I happy? Depends on how you ask.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    That's probably because 65% of people have no real chronic medical conditions and/or are on Medicare. I'm pretty well-off, so I can just throw money at my problems, and avoid dealing with insurance nonsense (denials and delays). So I'm fine with my health care coverage. I'm not at all fine with my insurance company. And I'm actually in a very privileged position because I helped select this insurer for my company.

griomnib 2y ago

If they aren’t sick and haven’t had to use the system for life saving care, then the numbers from the same surveys you cite are VASTLY different. Please don’t cherry pick misleading data.

1123581321 2y ago
Can you please link to the study that breaks out respondents by their health? I haven’t seen what you two are referring to.
threemux 2y ago
I guess you and I have different definitions of vastly. Even 68% people who say they are in "fair" or "poor" health say they're satisfied: https://www.kff.org/private-insurance/poll-finding/kff-survey-of-consumer-experiences-with-health-insurance/ https://www.kff.org/private-insurance/poll-finding/kff-surve... There's nothing misleading about the KFF data, which has been going for quite some time now. If you recall (I know it seems like a lifetime ago), Obama got in trouble for lying that people could keep their plan if they liked it. If so many hated their plan, why did he pay such a heavy political price? Why would he even have to lie in the first place?
- tumult 2y ago
  68% is horrible
  - gruez 2y ago
    Says who? For instance this source says that healthcare is near the middle of the pack when it comes to NPS (which is basically how many people are satisified minus people who aren't), and are ahead of "internet software and services". https://www.retently.com/blog/good-net-promoter-score/ https://www.retently.com/blog/good-net-promoter-score/
therealdrag0 2y ago
The context is about how the jury would feel about it, which includes people who aren’t and haven’t been sick. So the other commenter’s data is more correct and your attempt to partition out a subset of demographics is what is misleading.

iwontberude 2y ago

Ghoulish? Internet? Have you spoken to regular people not terminally online? They have no sympathy for the CEO. I had sympathy for him as a human and a worker, but his behavior was beyond the pale and unfortunately rule of law doesn’t exist in the US.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Have you spoken to regular people not terminally online? They have no sympathy for the CEO Everyone I have spoken to has no sympathy for him as a CEO but sympathy for him as a human. He is wrong and the healthcare system is broken. But this was also murder. If your sense of empathy is so fucked that you’re pro murder, you need to speak to a professional. (If you’re struggling with this and don’t want to let hate turn you into a monster, consider the difference between believing someone deserved what was coming to them and supporting that which delivered it.)
- DangitBobby 2y ago
  I don't know a single real person who felt bad for him.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Right. I also know several people who know no pro-abortion people, zero gay people, and nobody who is pro-Israel and not a flaming racist. We’re each in our bubbles.
- laimewhisps 2y ago
  He was killing people though, and if his death stops that, it's a net positive. His life is not worth more than the thousands he has ended for personal profit.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > if his death stops that, it's a net positive One, it doesn’t. Two, this applies in loads of cases depending on your individual morality. (Intentionally-spicy takes: abortion providers. Medical researchers who experiment on animals. Farmers. Meat eaters. Anyone American because of our foreign military interventions.)

gopher_space 2y ago

> Instead, every survey of Americans shows around 80% are satisfied with their health coverage. Weird how heath coverage is the only thing in America 80% of the people are satisfied with. It's such a nice round number, too. I'm assuming it's men only, or were women polled before Roe v. Wade was dumped?

loeg 2y ago
GP is rounding. It's an approximate centroid of a variety of numbers over time, but pretty consistently in the 70s or 80s.
- gopher_space 2y ago
  1) What else in America enjoys an 80% satisfaction rate, broadly speaking? 2) Why didn't this number change after women's healthcare took a massive hit? I'm assuming this is like calculating unemployment rates, where you need to play around with your definitions. Like, services no longer being available can't factor into "satisfaction" in any way. More concretely, if you have two pharmacies in town and one of them closes, will polling accurately reflect the 0% satisfaction rate engendered? Or is this where we start splitting hairs.
  - loeg 2y ago
    > What else in America enjoys an 80% satisfaction rate, broadly speaking? https://thehill.com/changing-america/3870943-americans-largely-satisfied-with-personal-lives-survey/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/3870943-americans-large... > Although personal life satisfaction varies based on income, age, marital status and education level, between 81 percent and 90 percent of Americans are satisfied with their own family life, current housing situation, job, education, community and personal health. > Slightly lower levels — between 71 percent and 77 percent — said the same about the amount of leisure time they have, their household income and standard of living. So, ya know, lots of things that aren't super politicized. > Why didn't this number change after women's healthcare took a massive hit? (1) This question is asking about the quality of healthcare you received, not your perception of healthcare for others. A minority of women are directly impacted through the healthcare system by Dobbs (2022) (as opposed to indirect or non-healthcare effects). (2) Some of the novel abortion restrictions post-Dobbs happened later? The most recent point on this graph is 2022. So it may just not show up yet until 2023/2024 numbers. (3) The 2022 satisfaction number is slightly lower than the 2021 number (72% vs 76%). You could plausibly attribute some of that to Dobbs.