4 ms·

US Food and Drug Administration moves to ban red food dye

53 points by rntn 2y ago

robotnikman 2y ago
Please, ban all these synthetic food dyes.
- molticrystal 2y ago
  Ban unhealthy food dyes, those to which our bodies have a net negative reaction over time, regardless of their origin. There are plenty of perfectly fine synthetic food dyes and ingredients that are inert or no worse than natural ones, even those derived from petroleum. To digress slightly, while I can agree that food dye serves primarily aesthetic purposes and has little value beyond that, many of these food additives increase shelf life and stability, thus preventing food waste and contributing to the abundance that many parts of the world enjoy, and hopefully, in the future, many more places will be able to enjoy as well.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    In the UK, labeling regulations allowed consumers to choose products with vegetable dyes while only banning the worst. Consumer pressure then led to many manufacturers switching to vegetable dyes to maintain sales. American M&Ms use synthetic dyes: > Coloring (includes Red 40 Lake, Yellow 6, Yellow 5, Blue 2 Lake, Red 40, Blue 1 Lake, Blue 1, Blue 2, Yellow 5 Lake, Yellow 6 Lake) UK (and probably EU) M&Ms: > Colours (E100, Carmine, E133, E160a, E160e, E170) Or curcumin, brilliant blue (blue 1 lake), beta-carotene (carrots), apocarotene (spinach), calcium carbonate (chalk). The British equivalent, Smarties, goes further and uses spirulina for the blue one.
chomp 2y ago
Banned since ‘94 in the EU, also banned in Japan, China, and Australia
- sebazzz 2y ago
  Wonder why it took so long. Is it the general sense of having least government involvement as possible, or lobbying?
jmclnx 2y ago
M&M just added back Red Ones, wonder if they used #3
ronsor 2y ago
Can we ban FD&C Red No. 40 too?
- cr125rider 2y ago
  Anecdotally #40 seems way more common. I see that one everywhere.
airstrike 2y ago
I'll take the win, but this seems very narrow in scope. I have a bigger issue with chick-shaped marshmallow figurines with incredibly long shelf life and kid-targeted marketing than I do with the color red. All this cheap, low value, post-war "food" needs to go. America needs more real food in general and the fact that the general population doesn't understand this problem is a much more important issue to tackle.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > the fact that the general population doesn't understand this problem Rather, the general population either lives in one of the way too many food deserts in the US [1], can't afford good food even if there was a store because they're struggling to make rent, or doesn't have the time and/or energy left at the end of the day to cook a decent fresh meal. FFS 47 million people in the US are food insecure, >50M used some sort of food assistance program in 2023 [2], and during Covid 30 fucking million children were at risk of hunger as the schools closed down [3]. The general population certainly understands they're eating shit or they're eating not enough, but has no power to change their circumstances. And from an European POV, y'all's groceries are expensive as fuck and blasted to hell and beyond with all sorts of pesticides and whatnot. [1] https://www.aecf.org/blog/communities-with-limited-food-access-in-the-united-states https://www.aecf.org/blog/communities-with-limited-food-acce... [2] https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america [3] https://www.tfah.org/article/covid-19-school-closures-put-30-million-children-at-risk-of-hunger/ https://www.tfah.org/article/covid-19-school-closures-put-30...
  - airstrike 2y ago
    If I rephrase it as "the general population doesn't prioritize this problem over other issues" maybe we can agree. If you look at the top N topics in every election cycle, they should pretty much all be lower priority than this one fundamental issue with America. Peeps and Cheetos are not adequate solutions for food deserts. We need a comprehensive plan to snap out of this situation.
- massivedang 2y ago
llamaimperative 2y ago
Don't worry, thanks to Chevron this just needs to get put in front of the right judge and we can get it tossed out in no time at all.
- ch4s3 2y ago
  That’s not how the legal decision works. Overturning Chevron just means that courts are no longer required to automatically defer to the executive branches interpretation of law where there is statutory ambiguity or silence. Courts must still defer to agencies when congress has conferred the power to make a rule or determination on an agency.
  - watwut 2y ago
    Only as long as that rule and determination is in accordance with supreme court politics. Otherwise they will find a way to twist the meanings again, so that they can ensure the outcome they want.
    - ch4s3 2y ago
      Chevron was always ridiculous. There’s no constitutional basis for executive agencies filling in accidentally ambiguous laws with their own sometimes expansive interpretations. Interpretation of the law has always been the domain of courts in common law systems.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Which statute bans red 3? In fact, 21 CFR 74.303(c) says the following: > FD&C Red No. 3 may be safely used for coloring foods generally (including dietary supplements) in amounts consistent with good manufacturing practice Seems pretty ambiguous to me!
  - cyberax 2y ago
    > Overturning Chevron just means that courts are no longer required to automatically defer to the executive branches interpretation of law where there is statutory ambiguity or silence. That has _always_ been the case. > Courts must still defer to agencies when congress has conferred the power to make a rule or determination on an agency. No. Repealing Chevron means that the courts can now be used to determine the _facts_.
malkia 2y ago
Good start, but what would happen in the next 4 years with goverment organizations being closed? Or maybe they are finally taking some action...
Molitor5901 2y ago
I don't think there is anything to the timing of this but I am grateful for the greater focus on the lack of food safety enforcement under the FDA. Congress needs to first split the food from the drugs into separate agencies. Then give the FDA greater authority to demand compliance, transparency, and greater enforcement authority.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Sytten 2y ago
I started using the app Yuka [1] and it really opened my eyes on a lot of products I used to consume that were bad. [1] https://yuka.io/en/ https://yuka.io/en/
domofutu 2y ago
'Bout time

53 points by rntn 2y ago

robotnikman 2y ago

Please, ban all these synthetic food dyes.

molticrystal 2y ago
Ban unhealthy food dyes, those to which our bodies have a net negative reaction over time, regardless of their origin. There are plenty of perfectly fine synthetic food dyes and ingredients that are inert or no worse than natural ones, even those derived from petroleum. To digress slightly, while I can agree that food dye serves primarily aesthetic purposes and has little value beyond that, many of these food additives increase shelf life and stability, thus preventing food waste and contributing to the abundance that many parts of the world enjoy, and hopefully, in the future, many more places will be able to enjoy as well.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  In the UK, labeling regulations allowed consumers to choose products with vegetable dyes while only banning the worst. Consumer pressure then led to many manufacturers switching to vegetable dyes to maintain sales. American M&Ms use synthetic dyes: > Coloring (includes Red 40 Lake, Yellow 6, Yellow 5, Blue 2 Lake, Red 40, Blue 1 Lake, Blue 1, Blue 2, Yellow 5 Lake, Yellow 6 Lake) UK (and probably EU) M&Ms: > Colours (E100, Carmine, E133, E160a, E160e, E170) Or curcumin, brilliant blue (blue 1 lake), beta-carotene (carrots), apocarotene (spinach), calcium carbonate (chalk). The British equivalent, Smarties, goes further and uses spirulina for the blue one.

chomp 2y ago

Banned since ‘94 in the EU, also banned in Japan, China, and Australia

sebazzz 2y ago
Wonder why it took so long. Is it the general sense of having least government involvement as possible, or lobbying?

jmclnx 2y ago

M&M just added back Red Ones, wonder if they used #3

ronsor 2y ago

Can we ban FD&C Red No. 40 too?

cr125rider 2y ago
Anecdotally #40 seems way more common. I see that one everywhere.

airstrike 2y ago

I'll take the win, but this seems very narrow in scope. I have a bigger issue with chick-shaped marshmallow figurines with incredibly long shelf life and kid-targeted marketing than I do with the color red. All this cheap, low value, post-war "food" needs to go. America needs more real food in general and the fact that the general population doesn't understand this problem is a much more important issue to tackle.

mschuster91 2y ago
> the fact that the general population doesn't understand this problem Rather, the general population either lives in one of the way too many food deserts in the US [1], can't afford good food even if there was a store because they're struggling to make rent, or doesn't have the time and/or energy left at the end of the day to cook a decent fresh meal. FFS 47 million people in the US are food insecure, >50M used some sort of food assistance program in 2023 [2], and during Covid 30 fucking million children were at risk of hunger as the schools closed down [3]. The general population certainly understands they're eating shit or they're eating not enough, but has no power to change their circumstances. And from an European POV, y'all's groceries are expensive as fuck and blasted to hell and beyond with all sorts of pesticides and whatnot. [1] https://www.aecf.org/blog/communities-with-limited-food-access-in-the-united-states https://www.aecf.org/blog/communities-with-limited-food-acce... [2] https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america [3] https://www.tfah.org/article/covid-19-school-closures-put-30-million-children-at-risk-of-hunger/ https://www.tfah.org/article/covid-19-school-closures-put-30...
- airstrike 2y ago
  If I rephrase it as "the general population doesn't prioritize this problem over other issues" maybe we can agree. If you look at the top N topics in every election cycle, they should pretty much all be lower priority than this one fundamental issue with America. Peeps and Cheetos are not adequate solutions for food deserts. We need a comprehensive plan to snap out of this situation.
massivedang 2y ago

llamaimperative 2y ago

Don't worry, thanks to Chevron this just needs to get put in front of the right judge and we can get it tossed out in no time at all.

ch4s3 2y ago
That’s not how the legal decision works. Overturning Chevron just means that courts are no longer required to automatically defer to the executive branches interpretation of law where there is statutory ambiguity or silence. Courts must still defer to agencies when congress has conferred the power to make a rule or determination on an agency.
- watwut 2y ago
  Only as long as that rule and determination is in accordance with supreme court politics. Otherwise they will find a way to twist the meanings again, so that they can ensure the outcome they want.
  - ch4s3 2y ago
    Chevron was always ridiculous. There’s no constitutional basis for executive agencies filling in accidentally ambiguous laws with their own sometimes expansive interpretations. Interpretation of the law has always been the domain of courts in common law systems.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Which statute bans red 3? In fact, 21 CFR 74.303(c) says the following: > FD&C Red No. 3 may be safely used for coloring foods generally (including dietary supplements) in amounts consistent with good manufacturing practice Seems pretty ambiguous to me!
- cyberax 2y ago
  > Overturning Chevron just means that courts are no longer required to automatically defer to the executive branches interpretation of law where there is statutory ambiguity or silence. That has _always_ been the case. > Courts must still defer to agencies when congress has conferred the power to make a rule or determination on an agency. No. Repealing Chevron means that the courts can now be used to determine the _facts_.

malkia 2y ago

Good start, but what would happen in the next 4 years with goverment organizations being closed? Or maybe they are finally taking some action...

Molitor5901 2y ago

I don't think there is anything to the timing of this but I am grateful for the greater focus on the lack of food safety enforcement under the FDA. Congress needs to first split the food from the drugs into separate agencies. Then give the FDA greater authority to demand compliance, transparency, and greater enforcement authority.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Sytten 2y ago

I started using the app Yuka [1] and it really opened my eyes on a lot of products I used to consume that were bad. [1] https://yuka.io/en/ https://yuka.io/en/

domofutu 2y ago

'Bout time