3 ms·

(not American here, but curious about the situation because healthcare is broken in so many countries). Money is a weapon of vote too, if you don't subscribe t

by rvnx 2y ago

(not American here, but curious about the situation because healthcare is broken in so many countries). Money is a weapon of vote too, if you don't subscribe to UnitedHealthcare, in the long run the corporate should eventually disappear as a whole no ? If you dislike Uber, then don't buy Uber. In Switzerland they have such capitalistic system where you can pick your private insurance provider. So the most expensive / worse ones, gets less revenue. In France, they have a socialo-communist monopoly, no choice, only one choice, and you have to be happy with it, no matter what. I guess that's the main promise of capitalism; voting with your money (money that is supposed to come proportional to your efforts, though it is warped by crime, cryptos, inheritance, etc). For example, if you stop buying meat, and convince others to stop buying meat, then there will less people investing into meat. EDIT: Users explained (thanks!) that it was not really a free choice.

Muromec 2y ago
>In France, they have a socialo-communist monopoly, no choice, only one choice, and you have to be happy with it, no matter what. It sounds very offending to my anarcho capitalistic world view, where poor people should suffer more than I do, but does it actually produce more suffering than US or less?
- sam_lowry_ 2y ago
  Popular wisdom says that medical care in France is the best in the world. Neighbouring countries are trying to match )
  - rvnx 2y ago
    If you don't pay taxes it's an incredibly great value and offering. This is why if you are poor France and can get state help is an excellent choice. Once you start to pay taxes, or you fit in-between the criterias for eligibility to state help, the costs are much higher than in the neighboring Switzerland for example.
vouaobrasil 2y ago
> Money is a weapon of vote too, if you don't subscribe to UnitedHealthcare, in the long run the corporate should eventually disappear as a whole no ? The problem is often that there is no really good option. And in places like Switzerland, there is often much more regulation to prevent all options from becoming bad. For example, the E.U. has many consumer rights laws that the U.S. does not have. The problem is unregulated capitalism. At a large scale, over time, people will find ways to take advantage of the system and exploit the people due to their greedy nature. And insurance is an industry that naturally tends to that end without regulation. In no place does unregulated capitalism give good results at scale.
- rvnx 2y ago
  I start to get it, reminds me of airline (delayed/late flight) regulations. E.U. is so much in advance in that (maybe sometimes too much, like the water bottles).
morkalork 2y ago
I asked this one and it's not a choice many people get to make, it's an insurer provided through your employer. If you want to choose an alternative you wont be getting group rates and the emplyer contribution so you'll be paying much more (such that it is not a viable option for most people). They exist not because they are good, but because they're a cheaper option that satisfies some legal checkboxes.
rafterydj 2y ago
Voting with your money works in a fair market for competitive goods and services, but health insurance is neither competitive nor a direct service, and it's also not a fair market (in the USA at least). In the USA, most health insurance plans are through private companies that have group plans with employers. This is a terrible system, because many employers just want to check the box of offering plans, so do not negotiate good plans for their employees (the best / most profitable companies might have good health insurance, but most not so much). It also very famously ties your health insurance status to your employment status, which gives a whole tone to the American discourse of labor laws. People are desperate to keep their jobs to keep their medical coverage. The US gov is trying to make it more competitive with healthcare.gov, which really only highlights how bad the situation is (you're hard pressed finding a healthcare marketplace plan for less than 200$/month without income tax credits). So the average American is stuck with plans they didn't negotiate for, with limited options for choosing better plans, and insurance very often deny coverage / include hidden fees / are generally inept at providing any type of service beyond taking your money. There's no way to vote with your wallet, when everyone in the business seems to be a crook at worst and an uncaring suit at best.

by rvnx 2y ago

Muromec 2y ago

>In France, they have a socialo-communist monopoly, no choice, only one choice, and you have to be happy with it, no matter what. It sounds very offending to my anarcho capitalistic world view, where poor people should suffer more than I do, but does it actually produce more suffering than US or less?

sam_lowry_ 2y ago
Popular wisdom says that medical care in France is the best in the world. Neighbouring countries are trying to match )
- rvnx 2y ago
  If you don't pay taxes it's an incredibly great value and offering. This is why if you are poor France and can get state help is an excellent choice. Once you start to pay taxes, or you fit in-between the criterias for eligibility to state help, the costs are much higher than in the neighboring Switzerland for example.

vouaobrasil 2y ago

> Money is a weapon of vote too, if you don't subscribe to UnitedHealthcare, in the long run the corporate should eventually disappear as a whole no ? The problem is often that there is no really good option. And in places like Switzerland, there is often much more regulation to prevent all options from becoming bad. For example, the E.U. has many consumer rights laws that the U.S. does not have. The problem is unregulated capitalism. At a large scale, over time, people will find ways to take advantage of the system and exploit the people due to their greedy nature. And insurance is an industry that naturally tends to that end without regulation. In no place does unregulated capitalism give good results at scale.

rvnx 2y ago
I start to get it, reminds me of airline (delayed/late flight) regulations. E.U. is so much in advance in that (maybe sometimes too much, like the water bottles).

morkalork 2y ago

I asked this one and it's not a choice many people get to make, it's an insurer provided through your employer. If you want to choose an alternative you wont be getting group rates and the emplyer contribution so you'll be paying much more (such that it is not a viable option for most people). They exist not because they are good, but because they're a cheaper option that satisfies some legal checkboxes.

rafterydj 2y ago

Voting with your money works in a fair market for competitive goods and services, but health insurance is neither competitive nor a direct service, and it's also not a fair market (in the USA at least). In the USA, most health insurance plans are through private companies that have group plans with employers. This is a terrible system, because many employers just want to check the box of offering plans, so do not negotiate good plans for their employees (the best / most profitable companies might have good health insurance, but most not so much). It also very famously ties your health insurance status to your employment status, which gives a whole tone to the American discourse of labor laws. People are desperate to keep their jobs to keep their medical coverage. The US gov is trying to make it more competitive with healthcare.gov, which really only highlights how bad the situation is (you're hard pressed finding a healthcare marketplace plan for less than 200$/month without income tax credits). So the average American is stuck with plans they didn't negotiate for, with limited options for choosing better plans, and insurance very often deny coverage / include hidden fees / are generally inept at providing any type of service beyond taking your money. There's no way to vote with your wallet, when everyone in the business seems to be a crook at worst and an uncaring suit at best.