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Kids need structure and permanency. This is child abuse, and I know people who have done it. Their kids are a mess, and it breaks my heart.

galangalalgol 2y ago
Humans have been nomads for most of our existence. I think if the traveling group had been larger so that there were consistent friendships of various ages that it might have gone differently. Carnival workers are a modern example in NA, they have traveling homeschools as they go to each ren-fair or whatever. So there are permanent friends, but the structure is pretty lacking.
SoftTalker 2y ago
Yes I know a woman who grew up this way, moving every couple of years, nothing ever permanent. As an adult, she has lived a life of self-sabotage, quitting jobs, moving and starting over, in and out of relationships with self-destructive men, never saving any money, never really planning for the future.
- raddan 2y ago
  My family moved nearly every year (and sometimes twice a year) until I was in high school. I loved the changes. I liked that when I went someplace new, the only thing my peers knew about me was what I told them. I made many friends over the years and I’d like to think that I am happy. So YMMV.
  - rvba 2y ago
    With how many of those friends do you still talk? *Liking facebook photos does not count.
    - BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
      How many childhood friend does anyone still talk to beyond liking photos on facebook?
      - rvba 2y ago
        I used to talk with 2 of my neighbors. Then guess what: I moved.
- zrobotics 2y ago
  I mean, the adult life you describe doesn't sound different from my brother, and growing up we moved once. Edit: my brother grew up into a child abusing POS by neglecting his kids, but let's looks at statistics VS anecdotes since individuals from all backgrounds can be garbage people.
- hi_hi 2y ago
  You just described a good friend of mine. He's one of the smartest and most capable people I know, but could never get out of his own way.
- LouisSayers 2y ago
  And I went to 7 different schools growing up, have since lived in several countries, have a master's degree and money in the bank. Correlation != Causation. People are different and respond differently to various situations. For me personally, having been in lots of places means I always have people to visit and in many cases a place to stay.
- borski 2y ago
  This is correlation. Plenty of people are brought up this way and are completely fine, and plenty of people are just like this and stayed in one place their entire lives.
- Invictus0 2y ago
  I know a woman who grew up in the typical way, in a stable loving household. As an adult, she has lived a life of self-sabotage, quitting jobs, moving and starting over, in and out of relationships with self-destructive men, never saving any money, never really planning for the future.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
> Kids need structure and permanency. This is child abuse Sorry, but this is BS. Structure, yes. Permanency, no. And certainly not child abuse. I know just as many examples of people with this experience, for whom it was amazingly positive and contributed to the successful people they are today.
- lenkite 2y ago
  There is an extraordinary amount of scientific evidence that frequent moving during childhood severely impacts child psychology. I am not even sure how you can say it is BS while throwing up anecdotal experience.
  - stogot 2y ago
    The original OP is an anecdote. Could you link the extraordinary data? I want to see how they can empirically test this
    - lenkite 2y ago
      Honestly, you can very easily find this yourself. Multiple independent studies carried out across both organizations and nations have shown this. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4866579/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4866579/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1353829217300503 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135382921... For the layman: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/17/health/moving-childhood-depression.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/17/health/moving-childhood-d... https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/moving-even-once-in-childhood-boosts-depression-risk-later-in-life/ https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/moving-even-once-in-childh... https://www.verywellmind.com/moving-depression-and-your-child-1066796 https://www.verywellmind.com/moving-depression-and-your-chil...
      - LouisSayers 2y ago
        And how much of this is just correlation and not due to mobility per se? From the first link you provided: > Firstly, increased risk for onset of mental disorders between mid-adolescence and early middle age could be a consequence of serious and enduring difficulties within families, rather than being a direct result of residential mobility. Relocation occurs more commonly amongst single parent and step families and those from lower socioeconomic background
stogot 2y ago
This is not child abuse. It’s an anecdote of two kids. I’m sure the parents were very loving. Another pair of kids could turn out perfectly fine doing this.
- jmcgough 2y ago
  In the above scenario, they were depriving their kids of any kind of meaningful friendship with peers during a critical development period. This is neglect, and neglect is abuse in children. If you care about your children, why would you risk permanently impairing their ability to form healthy relationships?
  - piuantiderp 2y ago
    I'm not sure the average school peers are any better. Unless we're talking private education. Do consider that for the better part of history, even in school, kids were not separated into years. That they need permanency, sure but that's the parents and the living situation
    - stogot 2y ago
      Agreed, separation into school grades by age is not normal or healthy. And abuse often happens in school. You could argue more soundly that modern schools are child abuse if we follow the commenter’s line of reasoning.
zrobotics 2y ago
It's presumptuous to claim child abuse, since we fundamentally know very little about the situation. I wouldn't say it's abuse, but it's certainly depriving the kids from learning how to develop socially. They aren't learning how to maintain friendships, and are being implicitly taught that such connections are disposable. I've had the misfortune to see actual child abuse, from the story presented in the OP it doesn't rise even close to that level. Let's please reserve words/phrases like that for situations that warrant it. It may not be an ideal parenting strategy, but claiming it's abuse cheapens the word. Are the children being fed properly? Are they being physically/sexually harmed? I've unfortunately had to intervene in a situation with my niece that involved the above 3. The parenting method in the OP may not be ideal, but plenty of people have had childhoods like that My mom grew up moving every 5-8 months, her dad was a contractor for the TVA. There are still people who follow around contracting work. Please don't minimize that actual harm caused by child abuse by cheapening the term.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  While one is undoubtedly worse than the other, I don’t think it’s a good idea to say it’s not abuse because it’s not as bad as the worst possible variety. I happen to agree this probably doesn’t rise to the level of child abuse, but there’s a large range between there and unfed/physically/sexually harmed. We shouldn’t cheapen it, but we shouldn’t make it too expensive either.
  - borski 2y ago
    You’re right. But this is decidedly not abuse; it’s a parenting style that many are unaccustomed to, and perhaps doesn’t work as well in the US, I have no idea. But it’s not abuse. You’re correct that physical/sexual harm and malnutrition are not the only things that constitute abuse either, though.
_yb2s 2y ago
I am into sailing and know a bunch of people that grew up “cruising the world” on sailboats with their parents. They’re almost all well adjusted, successful, and have unusually good social skills from learning how to make friends with people from other cultures. I think the structure and permanence that kids need is emotionally mature and available parents- the physical part is not the important part. Also, kids can have mental health problems and developmental disorders that have nothing to do with parenting- and it’s pretty awful to blame parents for their kids problems unless they intentionally abused them.
- borski 2y ago
  This is precisely the first thing I thought of. You can absolutely provide structure and strong friendships without physical proximity.
- withinboredom 2y ago
  Hol up. Sailing culture is VERY different from RV culture. I lived on a sailboat for years, going up and down the US coast, startup hopping. The sailing culture is very friendly, especially to kids (who are treated more like small adults than children). The people I met along the way are life-long friends. If I needed a ride to an auto store to pick up new house batteries, engine parts, or even to a Walmart, there were always people to give me a ride. RV culture is much more lonely and expects people to be more self-sufficient. If you need help, there may or may not be people to help you; for sure, the whole campsite won’t jump to help, unlike a marina. At least, that was my experience.
  - jhives 2y ago
    I don’t think that’s true of RV culture at all. I currently live on the road with my partner, and while we don’t yet have kids, we’ve met dozens of families and many more dozens of kids. All were more than capable of socializing and making friends, both with adults and other kids, and could often be found running around whatever campground or forest we were parked at. Certainly you can live a very isolated life on the road, but just like when living in a house if you put yourself out there there is a welcoming community that will respond.
Invictus0 2y ago
Please don’t trivialize child abuse like this.

galangalalgol 2y ago

Humans have been nomads for most of our existence. I think if the traveling group had been larger so that there were consistent friendships of various ages that it might have gone differently. Carnival workers are a modern example in NA, they have traveling homeschools as they go to each ren-fair or whatever. So there are permanent friends, but the structure is pretty lacking.

SoftTalker 2y ago

Yes I know a woman who grew up this way, moving every couple of years, nothing ever permanent. As an adult, she has lived a life of self-sabotage, quitting jobs, moving and starting over, in and out of relationships with self-destructive men, never saving any money, never really planning for the future.

raddan 2y ago
My family moved nearly every year (and sometimes twice a year) until I was in high school. I loved the changes. I liked that when I went someplace new, the only thing my peers knew about me was what I told them. I made many friends over the years and I’d like to think that I am happy. So YMMV.
- rvba 2y ago
  With how many of those friends do you still talk? *Liking facebook photos does not count.
  - BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
    How many childhood friend does anyone still talk to beyond liking photos on facebook?
    - rvba 2y ago
      I used to talk with 2 of my neighbors. Then guess what: I moved.
zrobotics 2y ago
I mean, the adult life you describe doesn't sound different from my brother, and growing up we moved once. Edit: my brother grew up into a child abusing POS by neglecting his kids, but let's looks at statistics VS anecdotes since individuals from all backgrounds can be garbage people.
hi_hi 2y ago
You just described a good friend of mine. He's one of the smartest and most capable people I know, but could never get out of his own way.
LouisSayers 2y ago
And I went to 7 different schools growing up, have since lived in several countries, have a master's degree and money in the bank. Correlation != Causation. People are different and respond differently to various situations. For me personally, having been in lots of places means I always have people to visit and in many cases a place to stay.
borski 2y ago
This is correlation. Plenty of people are brought up this way and are completely fine, and plenty of people are just like this and stayed in one place their entire lives.
Invictus0 2y ago
I know a woman who grew up in the typical way, in a stable loving household. As an adult, she has lived a life of self-sabotage, quitting jobs, moving and starting over, in and out of relationships with self-destructive men, never saving any money, never really planning for the future.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

> Kids need structure and permanency. This is child abuse Sorry, but this is BS. Structure, yes. Permanency, no. And certainly not child abuse. I know just as many examples of people with this experience, for whom it was amazingly positive and contributed to the successful people they are today.

lenkite 2y ago
There is an extraordinary amount of scientific evidence that frequent moving during childhood severely impacts child psychology. I am not even sure how you can say it is BS while throwing up anecdotal experience.
- stogot 2y ago
  The original OP is an anecdote. Could you link the extraordinary data? I want to see how they can empirically test this
  - lenkite 2y ago
    Honestly, you can very easily find this yourself. Multiple independent studies carried out across both organizations and nations have shown this. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4866579/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4866579/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1353829217300503 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135382921... For the layman: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/17/health/moving-childhood-depression.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/17/health/moving-childhood-d... https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/moving-even-once-in-childhood-boosts-depression-risk-later-in-life/ https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/moving-even-once-in-childh... https://www.verywellmind.com/moving-depression-and-your-child-1066796 https://www.verywellmind.com/moving-depression-and-your-chil...
    - LouisSayers 2y ago
      And how much of this is just correlation and not due to mobility per se? From the first link you provided: > Firstly, increased risk for onset of mental disorders between mid-adolescence and early middle age could be a consequence of serious and enduring difficulties within families, rather than being a direct result of residential mobility. Relocation occurs more commonly amongst single parent and step families and those from lower socioeconomic background

stogot 2y ago

This is not child abuse. It’s an anecdote of two kids. I’m sure the parents were very loving. Another pair of kids could turn out perfectly fine doing this.

jmcgough 2y ago
In the above scenario, they were depriving their kids of any kind of meaningful friendship with peers during a critical development period. This is neglect, and neglect is abuse in children. If you care about your children, why would you risk permanently impairing their ability to form healthy relationships?
- piuantiderp 2y ago
  I'm not sure the average school peers are any better. Unless we're talking private education. Do consider that for the better part of history, even in school, kids were not separated into years. That they need permanency, sure but that's the parents and the living situation
  - stogot 2y ago
    Agreed, separation into school grades by age is not normal or healthy. And abuse often happens in school. You could argue more soundly that modern schools are child abuse if we follow the commenter’s line of reasoning.

zrobotics 2y ago

It's presumptuous to claim child abuse, since we fundamentally know very little about the situation. I wouldn't say it's abuse, but it's certainly depriving the kids from learning how to develop socially. They aren't learning how to maintain friendships, and are being implicitly taught that such connections are disposable. I've had the misfortune to see actual child abuse, from the story presented in the OP it doesn't rise even close to that level. Let's please reserve words/phrases like that for situations that warrant it. It may not be an ideal parenting strategy, but claiming it's abuse cheapens the word. Are the children being fed properly? Are they being physically/sexually harmed? I've unfortunately had to intervene in a situation with my niece that involved the above 3. The parenting method in the OP may not be ideal, but plenty of people have had childhoods like that My mom grew up moving every 5-8 months, her dad was a contractor for the TVA. There are still people who follow around contracting work. Please don't minimize that actual harm caused by child abuse by cheapening the term.

Aeolun 2y ago
While one is undoubtedly worse than the other, I don’t think it’s a good idea to say it’s not abuse because it’s not as bad as the worst possible variety. I happen to agree this probably doesn’t rise to the level of child abuse, but there’s a large range between there and unfed/physically/sexually harmed. We shouldn’t cheapen it, but we shouldn’t make it too expensive either.
- borski 2y ago
  You’re right. But this is decidedly not abuse; it’s a parenting style that many are unaccustomed to, and perhaps doesn’t work as well in the US, I have no idea. But it’s not abuse. You’re correct that physical/sexual harm and malnutrition are not the only things that constitute abuse either, though.

_yb2s 2y ago

I am into sailing and know a bunch of people that grew up “cruising the world” on sailboats with their parents. They’re almost all well adjusted, successful, and have unusually good social skills from learning how to make friends with people from other cultures. I think the structure and permanence that kids need is emotionally mature and available parents- the physical part is not the important part. Also, kids can have mental health problems and developmental disorders that have nothing to do with parenting- and it’s pretty awful to blame parents for their kids problems unless they intentionally abused them.

borski 2y ago
This is precisely the first thing I thought of. You can absolutely provide structure and strong friendships without physical proximity.
withinboredom 2y ago
Hol up. Sailing culture is VERY different from RV culture. I lived on a sailboat for years, going up and down the US coast, startup hopping. The sailing culture is very friendly, especially to kids (who are treated more like small adults than children). The people I met along the way are life-long friends. If I needed a ride to an auto store to pick up new house batteries, engine parts, or even to a Walmart, there were always people to give me a ride. RV culture is much more lonely and expects people to be more self-sufficient. If you need help, there may or may not be people to help you; for sure, the whole campsite won’t jump to help, unlike a marina. At least, that was my experience.
- jhives 2y ago
  I don’t think that’s true of RV culture at all. I currently live on the road with my partner, and while we don’t yet have kids, we’ve met dozens of families and many more dozens of kids. All were more than capable of socializing and making friends, both with adults and other kids, and could often be found running around whatever campground or forest we were parked at. Certainly you can live a very isolated life on the road, but just like when living in a house if you put yourself out there there is a welcoming community that will respond.

Invictus0 2y ago

Please don’t trivialize child abuse like this.