3 ms·

DMY dates don't make sense. The units are from smallest to largest, but the string within each unit is still written from biggest to largest. Furthermore, if D

by nayuki 2y ago

DMY dates don't make sense. The units are from smallest to largest, but the string within each unit is still written from biggest to largest. Furthermore, if DMY makes sense, then you could argue that SS:MM:HH or MM:HH has a valid use case. (It does not.) Hence, ISO 8601 is the one true date format, assuming you still believe in writing numbers in big endian. If you want, you can argue for numbers being written in little endian. For example, the year "two thousand twenty-four" could be written as 4202, and maybe pronounced as four twenty thousand-two. In that case, go ahead and write dates as SS:MM:HH DD/MM/YYYY; it is UTC 61:45:12 60/21/4202.

elpocko 2y ago
That's crazy. What's next, abbreviating "Coordinated Universal Time" as UTC instead of CUT?
SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
> then you could argue that MM:HH has a valid use case. (It does not.) "twenty past ten" (It does.)
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  "twenty till ten" is just as valid, so I don't see either of those as a true example of MM:HH.
mrweasel 2y ago
> DMY dates don't make sense. This is a language issue. DMY makes perfect sense in languages where you'd normally say the date in that sequence. The "problem" is that English doesn't do that. The natural flow in English is MDY, e.g. July 4th, 2024. That not how Germanic language (at least those I know) works. In Danish or German you'd say "4th July, 2024", that's just how those languages work. I do agree that for computing ISO 8601 is the way to go as it sorts correctly.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  > The natural flow in English is MDY, e.g. July 4th, 2024. I'm sure that's true. This seems more like US custom than the whole English language. "July 4th" sound a bit forced and not natural to me, and I am a native English speaker. Not US English though.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    > I'm sure that's true. I accidentally an important word there. It should be "I'm not sure that's true." It's an English expression that's a bit understated: it means "I'm confident that this is wrong". You can't always argue from "what feels natural" - that's prone to mere familiarity (1), and someone else who is more used to the other way will have the opposite "feel". It's subjective, and not universal. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect
- mphalan 2y ago
  In England (and Ireland). One tends to say “The 4th of July”. “July 4th” is an Americanism.
  - HideousKojima 2y ago
    Both "the 4th of July" and "July 4th" are common in American English
    - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
      Yes, and only "the 4th of July" is common in UK English.
    - Izkata 2y ago
      Only because that's a holiday. The 23rd of March sounds a bit formal here compared to March 23rd, and sounds like it refers to an event or holiday. Wedding invitations might sometimes use that style, for example.
  - 2y ago
okanat 2y ago
Both DMY and HMS are sensical notations of time. For most people the day is the most important part of the cycle in a year. We measure most of our actions and chores in days then months then years. In a meeting, in official letters, taxes etc. everything is specified in days. Similarly hour is the most common division of a day. Generally humans have an internal tendency to measure things in half of an hour interval and hour is the closest one. One usually rents a parking slot for integer multiples of an hour. The travel distances are specified in hours or fractions of it Putting the most important measure at first just makes sense.

by nayuki 2y ago

elpocko 2y ago

That's crazy. What's next, abbreviating "Coordinated Universal Time" as UTC instead of CUT?

SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago

> then you could argue that MM:HH has a valid use case. (It does not.) "twenty past ten" (It does.)

Dylan16807 2y ago
"twenty till ten" is just as valid, so I don't see either of those as a true example of MM:HH.

mrweasel 2y ago

> DMY dates don't make sense. This is a language issue. DMY makes perfect sense in languages where you'd normally say the date in that sequence. The "problem" is that English doesn't do that. The natural flow in English is MDY, e.g. July 4th, 2024. That not how Germanic language (at least those I know) works. In Danish or German you'd say "4th July, 2024", that's just how those languages work. I do agree that for computing ISO 8601 is the way to go as it sorts correctly.

SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
> The natural flow in English is MDY, e.g. July 4th, 2024. I'm sure that's true. This seems more like US custom than the whole English language. "July 4th" sound a bit forced and not natural to me, and I am a native English speaker. Not US English though.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  > I'm sure that's true. I accidentally an important word there. It should be "I'm not sure that's true." It's an English expression that's a bit understated: it means "I'm confident that this is wrong". You can't always argue from "what feels natural" - that's prone to mere familiarity (1), and someone else who is more used to the other way will have the opposite "feel". It's subjective, and not universal. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect
mphalan 2y ago
In England (and Ireland). One tends to say “The 4th of July”. “July 4th” is an Americanism.
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  Both "the 4th of July" and "July 4th" are common in American English
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    Yes, and only "the 4th of July" is common in UK English.
  - Izkata 2y ago
    Only because that's a holiday. The 23rd of March sounds a bit formal here compared to March 23rd, and sounds like it refers to an event or holiday. Wedding invitations might sometimes use that style, for example.
- 2y ago

okanat 2y ago

Both DMY and HMS are sensical notations of time. For most people the day is the most important part of the cycle in a year. We measure most of our actions and chores in days then months then years. In a meeting, in official letters, taxes etc. everything is specified in days. Similarly hour is the most common division of a day. Generally humans have an internal tendency to measure things in half of an hour interval and hour is the closest one. One usually rents a parking slot for integer multiples of an hour. The travel distances are specified in hours or fractions of it Putting the most important measure at first just makes sense.