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Discussions about Tiktok are always dominated by the focus on privacy which is a joke. The real problem is the algorithmic control this gives China to influenc

by dtquad 2y ago

Discussions about Tiktok are always dominated by the focus on privacy which is a joke. The real problem is the algorithmic control this gives China to influence the populations of Western countries. But Meta was found to outsource content moderation to a Canadian company that outsourced Instagram content moderation to Iran. This is not about privacy. These platforms have become the new media. Getting your news from profit-seeking American and Chinese companies is not ideal in the long run.

bbqfog 2y ago
[flagged]
- spacemanspiff01 2y ago
  Young people spend alot of time on tick tock. At the level of detail that social media companies can get, they can estimate fairly accurately what issues that people get concerned by, and their opinions. Then they can micro target individual subpopulations with messaging that particularly works at influencing them. This is very different than historical propaganda efforts, were one had to target the largest common denominator. Now you can send individualized messaging towards individual subgroups. You see some of this with politicians in the US saying one thing in a set of Facebook adds, while saying the opposite in another set. Because the ads are targeted, neither group sees the ads meant for the other group, Which allows for better tailoring of message. On top of this the goal of a theoretical Chinese propaganda campaign is not necessarily to send a particular message, but to polarize and divide the country to make it even more disfunctional.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    Exactly. That's the fundamental difference between historical influence and modern social media influence. Historically, the same entity didn't have profiles, the ability to microtarget, and content. Can you imagine a newspaper company that kept a profile on every household? And also repasted together a unique paper for each one? Now the largest social media companies can do that trivially.
  - bbqfog 2y ago
    Like you say it's US politicians doing this. That's my point, I don't care if China does it as well because my current government is fully engaged in as much propaganda as they can get away with.
beepbooptheory 2y ago
Ok but like if this true and operative, why aren't they mobilizing their algorithmic control right at this moment when it seems like they would need it the most? Just seems like pretty incomplete control if they can still let themselves get to this point.
- asadotzler 2y ago
  They are.
  - beepbooptheory 2y ago
    Do you see the dissonance in this response, or no?
    - sadeshmukh 2y ago
      Algorithmic control doesn't mean mind control - it works best when attention isn't directly drawn to it. It's also hard to "algorithmic control" your way out of a lawsuit when public opinion doesn't change the outcome. And if you're talking about public opinion, just look down this thread - most people are against this action, not for it.
      - beepbooptheory 2y ago
        This makes sense but I guess I thought public opinion would make a difference here because USA is a democracy and everything. That's at least from my understanding what is supposed to distinguish the USA from China.
- chis 2y ago
  Even if they aren’t doing it, it’s just a crazy risk to run. Imagine if the biggest American newspapers were owned by Russia during the Cold War. America just wouldn’t have allowed it. And unlike that metaphor, TikTok offers basically 0 value over replacement compared to other media. Maybe it’s even worse than other media since it’s more addictive.
tonygiorgio 2y ago
The real problem is people scared of tHE aLGOrItHm
aprilthird2021 2y ago
> the algorithmic control this gives China to influence the populations of Western countries The first amendment allows us to choose whatever we want to influence us. If Americans want to sit in front of Chinese controlled social media and gorge on it, that's our right. I don't agree the government can take it away. The idea that they should control what influenced us is very anti democratic.
- spacephysics 2y ago
  At the very least there should be legislature to disclose the parties involved in decision making around algorithms and content moderation
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    Sure, but I am extremely against the government banning any type of media, social or otherwise.
banku_brougham 2y ago
Its way better than American propaganda, it just looks like normal people doing interesting things. Im gonna miss it but do I really deserve to be so well entertained?

by dtquad 2y ago

bbqfog 2y ago

[flagged]

spacemanspiff01 2y ago
Young people spend alot of time on tick tock. At the level of detail that social media companies can get, they can estimate fairly accurately what issues that people get concerned by, and their opinions. Then they can micro target individual subpopulations with messaging that particularly works at influencing them. This is very different than historical propaganda efforts, were one had to target the largest common denominator. Now you can send individualized messaging towards individual subgroups. You see some of this with politicians in the US saying one thing in a set of Facebook adds, while saying the opposite in another set. Because the ads are targeted, neither group sees the ads meant for the other group, Which allows for better tailoring of message. On top of this the goal of a theoretical Chinese propaganda campaign is not necessarily to send a particular message, but to polarize and divide the country to make it even more disfunctional.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Exactly. That's the fundamental difference between historical influence and modern social media influence. Historically, the same entity didn't have profiles, the ability to microtarget, and content. Can you imagine a newspaper company that kept a profile on every household? And also repasted together a unique paper for each one? Now the largest social media companies can do that trivially.
- bbqfog 2y ago
  Like you say it's US politicians doing this. That's my point, I don't care if China does it as well because my current government is fully engaged in as much propaganda as they can get away with.

beepbooptheory 2y ago

Ok but like if this true and operative, why aren't they mobilizing their algorithmic control right at this moment when it seems like they would need it the most? Just seems like pretty incomplete control if they can still let themselves get to this point.

asadotzler 2y ago
They are.
- beepbooptheory 2y ago
  Do you see the dissonance in this response, or no?
  - sadeshmukh 2y ago
    Algorithmic control doesn't mean mind control - it works best when attention isn't directly drawn to it. It's also hard to "algorithmic control" your way out of a lawsuit when public opinion doesn't change the outcome. And if you're talking about public opinion, just look down this thread - most people are against this action, not for it.
    - beepbooptheory 2y ago
      This makes sense but I guess I thought public opinion would make a difference here because USA is a democracy and everything. That's at least from my understanding what is supposed to distinguish the USA from China.
chis 2y ago
Even if they aren’t doing it, it’s just a crazy risk to run. Imagine if the biggest American newspapers were owned by Russia during the Cold War. America just wouldn’t have allowed it. And unlike that metaphor, TikTok offers basically 0 value over replacement compared to other media. Maybe it’s even worse than other media since it’s more addictive.

tonygiorgio 2y ago

The real problem is people scared of tHE aLGOrItHm

aprilthird2021 2y ago

> the algorithmic control this gives China to influence the populations of Western countries The first amendment allows us to choose whatever we want to influence us. If Americans want to sit in front of Chinese controlled social media and gorge on it, that's our right. I don't agree the government can take it away. The idea that they should control what influenced us is very anti democratic.

spacephysics 2y ago
At the very least there should be legislature to disclose the parties involved in decision making around algorithms and content moderation
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Sure, but I am extremely against the government banning any type of media, social or otherwise.

banku_brougham 2y ago

Its way better than American propaganda, it just looks like normal people doing interesting things. Im gonna miss it but do I really deserve to be so well entertained?