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Ukraine can't retake what it's lost they have no men left. You're extremifying. You could have said "they don't have enough people". But instead you had to d
by aguaviva 2y ago
Ukraine can't retake what it's lost they have no men left.
You're extremifying.
You could have said "they don't have enough people". But instead you had to dial it up to "they have no men left".
No matter what is actually happening on the ground -- you definitely won't be able to make heads or tails of it, if you keep confounding yourself with rhetoric like this.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago> You could have said "they don't have enough people". But instead you had to dial it up to "they have no men left". The realities of war are not LGBTQ-friendly. My male cousin has not been allowed to leave the country for almost 3 years. His wife is in Germany.
- aguaviva 2y agoI'm sorry you got triggered, but that was absolutely in no way what I was getting at. That line had nothing whatsoever to do with this "people"/"men" nonsense. I was referring simply to the quantifier.
- rrr_oh_man 2y agoThanks for the explanation. What’s the difference between those two?
- aguaviva 2y agoSubtracting the "people" vs "men" noise, I was trying to draw the distinction between the phrasings "they don't have enough people" and "they have no people left" (in both cases to meaning available to fight). The former suggests a situation which is quite dire, and that is certainly accurate in regard to Ukraine's current situation. The latter (if taken at face value) is essentially totalistic, and objectively misleading. That doesn't mean that that was their intent, of course. But to my ears it comes across as an overly emotionalized and in any case muddled characterization of the situation. Kind of like when, say, a startup is going through rough times and someone says "everyone's leaving" when really it was just their friend and a couple other people who have left. There's a word for this expressive style, btw: "histrionics".
- rrr_oh_man 2y agoThank you for this in-depth clarification. Much appreciated. I'd argue the situation is quite dire and the, arguably fatalistic, phrasing is not incorrect here. Men are not allowed to exit the country, and I know personally quite a few cases where males, who were in no real fighting age or condition, were literally picked up on the street and sent to the front. With handcuffs and aggressive force. In my former hometown. So, staying in your analogy, "everyone's leaving" is rather correct, with the modifier "...who has enough money or sheer luck". "But they're still there" feels like nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.
- aguaviva 2y agoWell, we disagree about the language issue then. Which in any case means essentially nothing compared with what these people are going through. In that sense I appreciate your clarification as well.
- rrr_oh_man 2y agoCheers! What a nice & civil disagreement :)
- pinkmuffinere 2y agoYou’re missing the forest for the trees. You claim “they have no men left”. This is false, and reduces trust in everything else you say. You might be right about your main point, but the argument you provide is not convincing. As one datapoint I’d love to hear a convincing argument, and really don’t have a strong opinion on who will win. If you make a more trustworthy argument for why Ukraine will lose, I promise I’ll read it Edit: truthfully, this is the most convincing argument I’ve seen so far https://manifold.markets/chrisjbillington/will-ukraine-win-the-russoukrainian https://manifold.markets/chrisjbillington/will-ukraine-win-t...
- rrr_oh_man 2y agoAre you sure you've replied to the right person?
- pinkmuffinere 2y agoOh lol I’m sorry, you’re absolutely right, this isn’t the comment I was trying to reply to Edit: wow, somehow I wasn’t even close, I’m like three generations off
- treyfitty 2y agoWhat? Why are you shoehorning LGBTQ into this... the intent of “…no men left” is well understood, and the vast majority of soldiers in Ukraine are male. The colloquialism is the same as your username rrr_oh_man. Man, and men is used are used in the same vain. And what does this have to do with your male cousin?
- rrr_oh_man 2y agoPlease re-read the thread, you might have misunderstood. GP's comment was: > You could have said "they don't have enough people". But instead you had to dial it up to "they have no men left" which I, mistakenly, as GP pointed out here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42349533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42349533, assumed to be a play on "there are also women on the front". Which there are, but in vastly fewer numbers.
- treyfitty 2y agoNo, I understood clearly.
- AustinDev 2y ago"War does not determine who is right—only who is left." You're right that there are men still living in Ukraine, Zelensky is still alive after all. However, the manpower situation has been pretty bleak for a while. [1] I'm in regular contact with people in theater and I'm not far off in saying 'there are no men left'. Russia is still advancing albeit slowly. We'll likely have new borders in a few months. Almost time to update your globe. [1] https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2024-03-16/ukraine-village-fighting-age-men-13338562.html https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2024-03-16/ukraine-v...
- aguaviva 2y agoWe're broadly on the same page it seems. I just found that the original choice of wording tiltied more into the territory of spin than a sober assessment of the state of things. That is all. Unfortunately, this kind of blurring has permeated the general discourse. Best to luck to whomever in your in contact with. I won't be changing my globe for anyone, however.
- arandomusername 2y ago> Russia is still advancing albeit slowly Isn't their rate of advancement a lot faster than a year ago?
- aguaviva 2y agoYes, but it also seems to have plateaued, and has held steady for the past 9 months or so.