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Their strategy was to build them where there weren't other dcfc chargers, opening up new areas especially around outdoors places. Their chargers are much better

Their strategy was to build them where there weren't other dcfc chargers, opening up new areas especially around outdoors places. Their chargers are much better maintained in general than the infamous Electrify America (they really struggle to fix EA chargers when they have problems, and they have problems) - there's a long story behind this. Rivian started before the plan to use superchargers was even envisioned, so today some of those holes that Rivian was filling aren't so important because tesla superchargers are nearby. Rivian has done a great job keeping their chargers working, have the software be reliable, just running a good service. Many and maybe most DCFC charger networks (DCFC meaning high power CCS chargers not including Tesla superchargers) really have struggled to match the uptime and reliability tesla SC. Tesla's magic ability it: (1) fix them when they break, quickly. (2) don't just build 4 chargers in a spot, it's almost the same cost to build 8 or 10. (3) string them together along main travel routes to make it possible to travel. The entire rest of the the charging industry basically fails at those 3 things. Most of them can't manage to fix a broken charger, sometimes in months. One major reason is they often don't have standardized hardware so there might not be a spare hardware to fix something there.

iknowstuff 2y ago
Tesla’s magic is excellent, quick, and cheap manufacturing coupled with their own dedicated software for them. And constant iteration. EA is a pathetic failure because its a hodgepodge of outsourced components (so very difficult to iterate) running on some shitty outsourced windows based software.
- piva00 2y ago
  EA is a pathetic failure because it was the punishment for Volkswagen for the emissions scandal. They were obliged to do it, not chosen.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    That and it seems like VW can't reliably deliver any decent software on any kind of platform. It's incredible how they have so many cars hobbled with some of the worst UXs on the market. It's not even like most of their competition is that competent, they're just exceptionally bad. Look at a lot of the reviews of the ID series, like the recent ID.Buzz.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  > windows based software say no more
qwerpy 2y ago
As a cybertruck owner who likes to drive deep into national parks, I'm optimistic about this. Tesla covers the big highways really well with their superchargers, but where they fall short are those adventure/outdoors destinations. E.g. the north cascades loop in WA state. You can find the occasional level 2 charger but they are painfully slow and aren't maintained well. Prior to the CT, Tesla didn't have "adventure-capable" vehicles, so serving those locations was not a priority. Hopefully with Rivian's DNA being more outdoors-oriented, everyone with a beefy EV can benefit.
- whoknowsidont 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
    It is an expensive item, human justify their choices. If you are into any hobby at all, you see it all the time.
  - user3939382 2y ago
    Is it any of your business?
    - whoknowsidont 2y ago
      Yeah? It definitely has my interest. Public comments get public attention.
      - qwerpy 2y ago
        OP here. Yeah I talk about them a lot. All of the other topics I could talk about, I seldom have original content to contribute. All of the interesting things get said pretty quickly for software engineering, living in a west coast city in the USA, not enjoying ads, etc. But for this one, I'm a relative rarity on this site and I'm enthusiastic about the topic, so there are more frequent opportunities for me to say something unique.
m463 2y ago
I've come to notice that there is no incentive for 3rd party ev-chargers to be dependable. Telsa and rivian have a vested interest in keeping the chargers working. Their sales depend on the chargers working. Even a little bad press is a multiplier against sales. They also have significant engineering effort throughout the charging ecosystem, from the batteries, on-board infrastructure, standards, mapping, strategic coverage for sales and more. Lots of engineering support and problems solved quickyly Meanwhile I kind of suspect 3rd party charging systems are probably like 3rd-party public telephones or atms -- a rent-seeking opportunity from someone who will not shell out for quick detection and fixing of broken chargers. I noticed this years ago - chaging a non-tesla EV was a crapshoot. evgo was expensive and pretty reliable, but only ever had two fast chargers. blink was always broken - completely undependable ev chargers. chargepoint seemed ok, but only had l2/slower chargers. There is basically no downside to these folks letting chargers be offline for a while.
- PaulWaldman 2y ago
  > I've come to notice that there is no incentive for 3rd party ev-chargers to be dependable. I don't know, how often would you stop at a gas station if their pumps weren't reliable? Many 3rd party chargers are selling electricity at a mark-up.
  - jonny_eh 2y ago
    Unfortunately, the lost income is marginal. The risk for Tesla/Rivian, or even a gas station, is more existential.
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      Yeah, the forging of EA from the Dieselgate money probably has a lot to do with why they don’t feel the heat on unreliable chargers. I suppose it would be different if chargers were run by electric utilities or were there to goose the sales of convenience stores.
      - 2y ago
elif 2y ago
Just came to say that Electrify America in late 2024 is NOT the Electrify America of 2023. Legitimately you are looking at >90% odds that all stalls will be working at full power. Idk how they got it together but knock on wood.
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  IIRC they changed hardware providers and the new one makes way more reliable gear.
- borski 2y ago
  This is true. It has gotten way, way better.
borski 2y ago
Superchargers also have the benefit of only having to support Teslas. It is very relevant to note that the rollout of using superchargers by other brands has been a giant clusterfuck.
caycep 2y ago
What ended up happening w/ that whole "downsizing/firing the Tesla supercharger team" episode a year ago or so?

iknowstuff 2y ago

Tesla’s magic is excellent, quick, and cheap manufacturing coupled with their own dedicated software for them. And constant iteration. EA is a pathetic failure because its a hodgepodge of outsourced components (so very difficult to iterate) running on some shitty outsourced windows based software.

piva00 2y ago
EA is a pathetic failure because it was the punishment for Volkswagen for the emissions scandal. They were obliged to do it, not chosen.
- vel0city 2y ago
  That and it seems like VW can't reliably deliver any decent software on any kind of platform. It's incredible how they have so many cars hobbled with some of the worst UXs on the market. It's not even like most of their competition is that competent, they're just exceptionally bad. Look at a lot of the reviews of the ID series, like the recent ID.Buzz.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
> windows based software say no more

qwerpy 2y ago

As a cybertruck owner who likes to drive deep into national parks, I'm optimistic about this. Tesla covers the big highways really well with their superchargers, but where they fall short are those adventure/outdoors destinations. E.g. the north cascades loop in WA state. You can find the occasional level 2 charger but they are painfully slow and aren't maintained well. Prior to the CT, Tesla didn't have "adventure-capable" vehicles, so serving those locations was not a priority. Hopefully with Rivian's DNA being more outdoors-oriented, everyone with a beefy EV can benefit.

whoknowsidont 2y ago
[flagged]
- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
  It is an expensive item, human justify their choices. If you are into any hobby at all, you see it all the time.
- user3939382 2y ago
  Is it any of your business?
  - whoknowsidont 2y ago
    Yeah? It definitely has my interest. Public comments get public attention.
    - qwerpy 2y ago
      OP here. Yeah I talk about them a lot. All of the other topics I could talk about, I seldom have original content to contribute. All of the interesting things get said pretty quickly for software engineering, living in a west coast city in the USA, not enjoying ads, etc. But for this one, I'm a relative rarity on this site and I'm enthusiastic about the topic, so there are more frequent opportunities for me to say something unique.

m463 2y ago

I've come to notice that there is no incentive for 3rd party ev-chargers to be dependable. Telsa and rivian have a vested interest in keeping the chargers working. Their sales depend on the chargers working. Even a little bad press is a multiplier against sales. They also have significant engineering effort throughout the charging ecosystem, from the batteries, on-board infrastructure, standards, mapping, strategic coverage for sales and more. Lots of engineering support and problems solved quickyly Meanwhile I kind of suspect 3rd party charging systems are probably like 3rd-party public telephones or atms -- a rent-seeking opportunity from someone who will not shell out for quick detection and fixing of broken chargers. I noticed this years ago - chaging a non-tesla EV was a crapshoot. evgo was expensive and pretty reliable, but only ever had two fast chargers. blink was always broken - completely undependable ev chargers. chargepoint seemed ok, but only had l2/slower chargers. There is basically no downside to these folks letting chargers be offline for a while.

PaulWaldman 2y ago
> I've come to notice that there is no incentive for 3rd party ev-chargers to be dependable. I don't know, how often would you stop at a gas station if their pumps weren't reliable? Many 3rd party chargers are selling electricity at a mark-up.
- jonny_eh 2y ago
  Unfortunately, the lost income is marginal. The risk for Tesla/Rivian, or even a gas station, is more existential.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    Yeah, the forging of EA from the Dieselgate money probably has a lot to do with why they don’t feel the heat on unreliable chargers. I suppose it would be different if chargers were run by electric utilities or were there to goose the sales of convenience stores.
    - 2y ago

elif 2y ago

Just came to say that Electrify America in late 2024 is NOT the Electrify America of 2023. Legitimately you are looking at >90% odds that all stalls will be working at full power. Idk how they got it together but knock on wood.

rootusrootus 2y ago
IIRC they changed hardware providers and the new one makes way more reliable gear.
borski 2y ago
This is true. It has gotten way, way better.

borski 2y ago

Superchargers also have the benefit of only having to support Teslas. It is very relevant to note that the rollout of using superchargers by other brands has been a giant clusterfuck.

caycep 2y ago

What ended up happening w/ that whole "downsizing/firing the Tesla supercharger team" episode a year ago or so?