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Kagi Teams
- nacrem 2y ago[flagged]
- killparty 2y ago> access to all premium LLMs in the world That's a bold claim
- senko 2y agoThey list Claude, OpenAI GPT, Mistral, Gemini and Llama: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/ai/assistant.html#llms-available-in-the-assistant https://help.kagi.com/kagi/ai/assistant.html#llms-available-... It's a fair assesment, unless you're nitpicking about "all" in there.
- paradite 2y agoI would be surprised if at any point in time there are more than 5 LLM providers who are widely considered premium (close to SOTA in my interpretation).
- api 2y agoTwo years with Kagi, sometimes go months without using Google. Stay pure. Kagi plus a few good LLMs (I use local ones via ollama because I do that, and also Claude sometimes) gives you research capabilities that are as good as the pre-enshittification Internet and often better. I use LLMs like brainstorming partners and research assistants and then use Kagi to search for real data to verify results and make sure the LLMs aren't hallucinating. Going back to Google I'm sometimes shocked at how absolute trash it is. I'm sure they're maximizing their internal KPIs. Of course I know the real problem with Google is that I'm not the customer.
- sshine 2y agoTwo years with Kagi, I never visit Google once. When I install Linux on a new computer, I install Firefox from its package manager, log in with Firefox Sync, and this switches my default search engine to Kagi. So I never once visit Google, not even to download Firefox. I just tried going to Google, and it is simultaneously satisfying and saddening to be met with a cookie disclaimer pop-up: Saddening because I'm reminded that ubiquitous search access comes at the cost of tracking, and satisfying because I never once visited Google on this one-year old computer (after which the pop-up disappears).
- ryan-duve 2y agoWhich Linux distributions are you installing on a new computer that doesn't come with Firefox installed already?
- ElectricalUnion 2y agoNot OP but Raspbian afaik is one such distro.
- sshine 2y agoDefault NixOS using the graphical installer.
- dantyti 2y ago>search access comes at the cost of tracking don't you have your identity (through payments) tied with every search query you make when using kagi?
- stavros 2y agoThey'd have to show a cookie banner if they tracked you, so, unless they're breaking the law, no.
- sshine 2y agoYes, but I trust them. Specifically, I trust the CEO and founder. If I didn’t trust anyone, I’d visit DuckDuckGo using uBlock Origin via a Mullvad VPN paid for with coinjoined crypto.
- authorfly 2y agoJust be aware that Google runs a lot of other integral services that hoover up data anyway and are practically unavoidable for modern life. For example, I blocked all domains including google and I was then unable to use local rent listing websites, unable to comment on forums, and unable to browse university research publication lists, because they were captcha blocked. In fact one of the only upsides of Apps I see is that they tend to avoid captchas. They fail in a nasty way too - nobody expects you to block them - so you'll simply see blank pages, etc. Likewise for Firebase which it seems 40% of startups use.
- berdon 2y agoWhen I accidentally use Google I’m instantly surprised and delirious. The difference in both search quality and advertisements is astounding. Been using Kagi since its beta and I’ve never used Google intentionally since.
- xvector 2y agoFunnily enough, deleting all of my raise/pin/lower/block filters dramatically improved the quality of my search results. Enjoying Kagi a lot more now.
- jjtheblunt 2y agoExcellent
- pbronez 2y agoHaha that’s pretty interesting. I only have a very few of these adjustments configured. Mostly I boost sites that I subscribe to. For example, I use this to put Encyclopedia Brittanica results above Wikipedia when the former has a matching article. Similarly, I prefer all3dp results for 3d printing searches.
- __jonas 2y agoHuh, how come? That would be a big selling point for Kagi for me, getting rid of w3schools, "geeksforgeeks" etc. and have things like MDN pushed to the top without having to specify it in the search query.
- rustcleaner 2y agoYes I like that. Let's go further: What Kagi needs is to use AI to figure out what domains are full of 'commercial' activity (buy/cart buttons, ads, telemetry, SEO, login-walls, etc), give those domains a 'commercial' score from 0 to 1, and then when the user slides the Kagi® Commercial Control Slider™ down, nothing with a commelcial score above that point shows up. If the user slides it to zero, the kind of sites which should be the supermajority of results should be the non-commercial non-monetizeable geocities-tier passion project sites built by, and forums frequented by, obsessed autists. It's the only way to fix search: designs which are detectable attempts at monetization should be nerf-able by the user. A new search game must be set up where seeking money kills your site rankings in search. I only care about sites where the webmaster is paying and working to tell me something he cares about, for free, because he is obsessed. No I don't want to buy your stupid product/service, I don't have money to spend and spending it on anything except survival and advancement is counter to my strategic interests. I want autist site and forum results, I do not want marketing-driven money making results... period. If the site makes money, it prima facie doesn't have my interests at heart. This heuristic works really well for me.
- tstrimple 2y agoI've moved on from Kagi. Their service is absolutely better than Google, but not at least $120 / year better than Google. Especially when you have to deal with the plugin and private browsing nonsense that introduces a ton of friction.
- frereubu 2y agoOnce you've set up the plugins and private browsing API keys there's no more friction is there? I found the iOS Safari extension buggy for a bit, but I haven't had any issues for quite a while now. The price does make me wince once in a while though. What are you using instead?
- senko 2y agoI'm happy with the price but Firefox randomly logs me out in private mode (maybe after an update? too infrequent to be able to spot the pattern, but it's there), which is a bit annoying.
- tstrimple 2y agoThat's what I dealt with. It seemed like roughly 50% of the time I'd have to re-auth for private browsing searches. Across multiple devices this becomes even more of a pain in the ass.
- stavros 2y agoCan you not just use the URL with the token that signs you in automatically?
- senko 2y agoFor some reason you can't just add a custom search engine url to Firefox, you need to have an extension. Kagi has one that swts up the engine and injects the token, but it sometimes breaks so I need to uninstall/install it. Really a minor annoyance tho.
- hubraumhugo 2y agoI can't think of any other product that makes it to the HN frontpage so consistently. I guess Kagi really hits the bullseye in terms of HN as a target audience.
- larme 2y agoIt indicates how much does google search suck nowadays.
- IgorPartola 2y agoTo be precise, it might indicate how much Google sucks specifically for the HN audience. I have never seen Kagi mentioned outside of HN. Not that I disagree that Google has ruined the web lately but let’s not assume that this means Kagi will eat their lunch just yet.
- netdevphoenix 2y agoMonopolies are not easy to defeat. Look at how bad IE was and how much better FF and Chrome were. Both were free and yet IE still dominated for a very long time.
- move-on-by 2y agoI’m a happy Kagi user. I set it up on my wife’s phone… she was relieved when the trial was over and I set Google back up. I’m starting to think this line of thought is more accurate than just ‘Google sucks now’. It depends on your demographic. I think Google has become so optimized for people who click on ads that they have alienated people who do not. I never click on ads. Back when I used Google, if I searched for something specific and saw both the ad and the search result I wanted- I just scrolled down to the search result. My wife would just click on the ad, and I think most people do. Beyond that specific example, she clicks on other types of ads as well. For me, I just see them as invasive and hostile. I’m not the type of user Google cares anything about, and maybe that’s why I perceive a drop in quality results.
- 2y ago
- joshstrange 2y agoI must be missing a minimum team size? Because if there isn’t one then why would anyone pay for “individual Ultimate” over “Team Ultimate” when they are the same price but you get more with the Team version?
- cube2222 2y agoI might be blind, so apologies, but could you point at the difference please? Based on a cursory look Team Ultimate is the same as individual Ultimate, feature-wise.
- joshstrange 2y agoI guess I'm not clear on if: - AI Assistant with access to leading LLM models, grounded in Kagi Search - Universal access to: - OpenAI - Anthropic - Google - Meta - Mistral Are the same thing or different things. Like do I get their AI Assistant which uses those models under the hood or do I get a web chat interface with those models directly?
- cube2222 2y agoYou get a web chat interface with those models directly, both in the individual and team version of ultimate.
- nicce 2y agoYou pay only for the active users. At least for me the individual and Team Ultimate have exactly the same price?
- cmeacham98 2y agoI don't see one on the pricing page either: https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=team https://kagi.com/pricing?plan=team However, based on that page, the team plan cannot be prepaid annually for a discount, so if you are willing to do that the individual plan is 10% cheaper.
- sshine 2y agoI particularly like the Teams pricing model: - Professional ($10/user/month): Unlimited search - Ultimate ($25/user/month): Unlimited search plus LLMs You can mix and match users on different tiers. So you don't need to splurge on LLMs for everyone. Still, I'm only using Kagi Search and not any of their LLM Agent stuff. I am still waiting for better pay-per-use LLM access, rather than $15-20/mo subs.
- nicce 2y ago> I am still waiting for better pay-per-use LLM access, rather than $15-20/mo subs. I am from the other side. My LLM bill would be hundreds of dollars in month if I would use APIs but these flat prices really work for me.
- sshine 2y agoI don’t know how I could generate that much LLM traffic without building an AI product that drove automated traffic. With current API pricing, my consistent, daily personal use amounts to at most $2-3/mo.
- nicce 2y agoIf you work with large input contex all the time, it will quickly add up.
- cube2222 2y agoNice! Happy user of Kagi for over two years here. Suggestion: it would be cool if the Teams plan included a “personal” plan you can use with a personal account for each member. 1Password does it this way - if you have 1Password at work, you can “link” your personal account to it to get a family plan free of charge - but it’s linked for just this purpose, your employer doesn’t get access to your personal 1Password. This is great to keep professional and personal accounts separate.
- potamic 2y agoVery interesting going after enterprise. How do you pitch to a CFO that you now need to pay for a web search license on top of Copilot/AI Assistant or whatever?
- smodo 2y agoKagi has been slowly positioning itself as the single point of entry for both search and AI. They offer some LLM integrations and are working on making the whole experience well integrated. Not a bad idea, just quite hard to pull off when Microsoft starts pushing Bing and Copilot to their enterprise clients more aggressively.
- carlosjobim 2y agoIn a business setting $10 per month per person is nothing if it increases productivity.
- noprocrasted 2y agoOn the other hand, the red tape is the problem, not the $10. The amount of effort to get anything paid approved is often similar whether it's $1 or $100. Above that, it probably gets exponentially harder but that's fair. I think the original comment pointed out that justifying any new purchase (especially for something that's generally taken for granted as free such as web search) is hard, not necessarily whether it's $10 vs $20.
- Hydrocarb0n 2y agoI'm a Kagi subscriber, It is good, I am finding myself using perplexity.Ai quite about now it's very good.
- alde 2y agoStopped paying for Kagi after finding out that they are using Yandex for some part of the search results and are paying Yandex 2% of their revenue for that. For the unaware, Yandex Search is tightly integrated with the Kremlin.
- nxoxn 2y agoInteresting that you are being downvoted. This is important to some people.
- pbronez 2y agoHmm I wasn’t aware of the revenue share setup. What’s the source for that? This was a good nudge to check in on how close Yandex is to the Russian government. Answer: way closer than they were 5 years ago. Russia basically nationalized them, and routinely modifies search results to align with the government’s preferences. https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/the-sad-fate-of-yandex-from-independent-tech-startup-to-kremlin-propaganda-tool https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/th...
- jks 2y agoThe Kagi founder mentions 2% in a response to a feedback thread https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo/18 https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...
- yabatopia 2y agoIf that’s the case, that’s really disappointing to hear. I recommend you for doing the right thing.
- usui 2y agocommend*
- scosman 2y agoSource please. Paying customer, would like to know more.
- palata 2y agoI have been using Kagi for around two years. If I don't find the results I want, I sometimes try Google and I don't find results there either. Difficult to say if Kagi gives better results, but what's for certain is that it doesn't give worse results. I am happy to pay 120$/year to support the business model.
- throwayaw84330 2y agoI've been using it since ~2022 and can't go back. I think it definitely has better results: whenever I'm using a new machine or a different computer without it, I notice the low quality of results immediately; and quickly side-quest to find a way to log in to Kagi. The freedom of clicking on the first few search results without thinking whether or not those are ads and/or scams is priceless; a calm and premium experience.
- baliex 2y agoI’ve been using it for a couple of years and would add that it’s probably the density of high quality results that’s better, rather than the best results being better than Google. In other words, there are fewer low quality results which raises the average quality of the results you’re presented with
- Glant 2y agoThe only time I really go to Google is when searching for a product or local business. Google excels there, but that's obviously because they have several decades of business-provided information. Kagi does great with 99% of my searches.
- EasyMark 2y agoI like being able to filter out the junk SEO sites, that’s the big one for me
- snapplebobapple 2y agohow does it compare to brave search? I switched over to that a few years ago because I often got better results but I tsill end up back on google a few times a month.
- rustcleaner 2y agoWould love to use kagi, but they (Google) block Mullvad from specifically the registration page. Anonymity > decent search 8 days a week!
- dewey 2y agoIf that’s your treat model: fair, but not processing payments if a user is on a VPN is very understandable. You don’t want users to use you as a credit card validation service.
- hyperknot 2y agoWhat's the difference between using Kagi and Perplexity? On X everyone talks about Perplexity, on HN, about Kagi. Do they both search -> put results in an LLM as input text?
- hobofan 2y ago> On X everyone talks about Perplexity Must be your X echo chamber. I haven't heard about Perplexity in ages. > Do they both search -> put results in an LLM as input text? No. Kagi does have optional LLM-based answers, but at the core they present as a search engine and not a chatbot like Perplexity.
- hyperknot 2y agoProbably. Still, I find Perplexity extremely useful for giving me a one sentence answer based on reading 10 reddit threads.
- bogwog 2y agoKagi is a regular search engine, like Google. They started to bundle some optional AI features with the subscription, but I personally never use them. Perplexity is yet another AI startup trying to find a way to monetize LLMs. Will they survive when the bubble pops? Idk. Do I trust them with my data? Fuck no. Just look at all the advertising they're investing in and ask yourself how they plan to make that money back.
- shadowvoxing 2y ago[flagged]
- sshine 2y agoWhy suspicious? There is a high alignment with the company and the hacker news demography.
- RavlaAlvar 2y agoI just moved to Kagi last month. Here’s my experience: Searching for real time information that happens within a day is way worse than google. I realise how much I missed the shopping search of Google. Google map is still irreplaceable. Google search has better UX, I particularly missed the favicon that identified the site next to URL. Image search is also way inferior
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Searching for real time information that happens within a day is way worse than google This is fair. On the other elements, I’ve found Kagi to be superior. In particular, having shopping results separated from recommendations (and summarising them with quick answers). As for favicons, uprank or even anchor your favourite domains [1]. That’s what the favicon was proxying. [1] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/website-info-personalized-results.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/website-info-personalize...
- MaPi_ 2y agoThere is a setting to turn on the favicon somewhere
- RavlaAlvar 2y agoThanks, just found it
- esperent 2y agoYou picked the exact three things that Google does better than Kagi: Maps, Shopping, and realtime information. I'd also add local business information to this list. But you didn't mention the things that Kagi does better than Google which is in my experience: everything else. Google is still "free" though so there's nothing stopping you from adding !g to your Kagi shopping searches.
- mikkelam 2y agoI agree on the first part. Having used kagi for about 6 months it often lacks behind on recent things. I find myself automatically adding !g on such queries
- timvdalen 2y agoWhat's the difference? Is it just being able to manage billing in a central place? The actual offering and price seem identical to just giving people their own account, right?
- carlosjobim 2y agoIsn't that an important difference for enterprise?
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- neoromantique 2y agoDropped Kagi after being a happy user and annoying all my friends about it for years. Sadly integration with Yandex is a deal breaker and a total violation of trust, sad.