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This is a bad take. Ads are not the problem. Behavioural ads with suriveillance and data economy is. Static ads or contextual ads are the answer. Some of the be

This is a bad take. Ads are not the problem. Behavioural ads with suriveillance and data economy is. Static ads or contextual ads are the answer. Some of the best examples I can think of on the top of my head is duckduckgo.com and https://daringfireball.net/feeds/sponsors/ https://daringfireball.net/feeds/sponsors/ Paywall doesn't stop data surveillance. All the news sites have become paywalled because ads revenue dried up because people installing ad blockers and are more aware of privacy. But now, not only don't they not provide content for free, but also make you pay and collect your data as well. - Go to most of the major news sites in firefox. - Install noscript extension - See the bizillion scripts that loads. Note: You can load all these scripts indirectly with google tag manager or platforms like cloudflare zaraz etc. So you won't even directly see the analytics script that is loaded in a website. Just google tag manager etc. Ads are a good way to make revenue when it is done right. Behavioural ads makes it the worst it the problem we should be solving. It makes sense from the business POV as well. You cut the middlemen like facebook and google and get paid premium directly. You curate the ads for your product/website. People want to just plug in an api call and generate money. That won't fly anymore with users being aware.

the_gipsy 2y ago
Ads are always bad. Poor or unemployed people get bombarded with lifestyle messages on a daily basis. That is psychologically damaging.
- unsungNovelty 2y ago
  Not when it is done right. Most or all podcasts and youtube channels are perfect examples of static ads. I have interacted and signed up with things cos I find them useful. Imagine, the entire podcast industry and youtube channels are dependent on static ads to make revenue. And people say it doesn't work. Static / Contextual ads means: - no data collection needed - More money to websites/apps cos they are removing google and facebook as middlemen. - Can be privacy friendly - Provide free content means more reach - Lesser scams, ad malwares and other scammy things Behavioural ads with data economy over api's became mainstream because we had to directly make relationships with people who want to show ads in our website and apps. It's time consuming and you will need a worthwhile product to show and pitch your website/ads as an ideal place for them to show their ads to. And you cannot just create a bunch of pages and setup google ads and be done with it. Delegating this has been bad for the websites/apps and for users equally. The only winners have been google, facebook like players. I have been writing an article on this topic for months. I will finish and hopefully I can make a more articulated case then.
  - klez 2y ago
    How does this answer GP's claim that people who can't afford stuff are being bombarded with messages that make them feel inadequate and cause psychological damage?
- akira2501 2y ago
  Stop pharmaceutical ads. Stop NGOs and USAID from being able to buy ads on any issue.
mrweasel 2y ago
Another issue is that content is now being written to accommodate the ads, it's not really value in its own right anymore. So much reporting and writing is terrible, because it's seen as a cost, while the ads are the source of revenue. Even if you pay to not see the ads, then content won't change and you'll still be served the same "damaged goods". The quality of the writing doesn't go up when you're on the other side of the paywall.
- unsungNovelty 2y ago
  I agree. The decline in writing quality is observable. There is like zero effort put into improving the writing. > Even if you pay to not see the ads, then content won't change and you'll still be served the same "damaged goods". The quality of the writing doesn't go up when you're on the other side of the paywall. Exactly. And the same like I have said above applies for data collection as well. Paywalls don't stop data collection and data surveillance.
manuelmoreale 2y ago
> Ads are not the problem. I'll quote you "this is a bad take". What's bad is asking me to pay money and then serving me premium ads because you now know i'm someone with disposable income and i'm willing to give it to a premium publication. > Ads are a good way to make revenue when it is done right. In an ideal world, yes. That ideal world is long gone.
- unsungNovelty 2y ago
  > I'll quote you "this is a bad take". What's bad is asking me to pay money and then serving me premium ads because you now know i'm someone with disposable income and i'm willing to give it to a premium publication. > What's bad is asking me to pay money and then serving me premium ads because you now know i'm someone with disposable income and i'm willing to give it to a premium publication. OK. Let's first examine 2 complaints about ads: 1. Ads are an annoyance. 2. Ads with surveillance and data economy are bad. If your problem is the first one, I don't have anything else to say than the fact that Ads are not going anywhere. My arguments are all against and about the 2nd point. I think ads are a good way to make revenue. And it should NOT be done with data surveillance but with curated and useful ads. Exactly. Do you think the problem is ads here? And you still haven't answered to my POV. How is paywall stopping data surveillance? The reality is they are making you pay and serving ads. Which is the problem? How is paying solving it? > In an ideal world, yes. That ideal world is long gone. If we are to fix the problem, this is what we should do. Find THAT ideal world.
  - manuelmoreale 2y ago
    > I don't have anything else to say than the fact that Ads are not going anywhere. Why? You state that as if Ads are a product of the universe we live in and we need to accept them like gravity. > And it should NOT be done with data surveillance but with curated and useful ads. Agree in principle. The problem is that you don't even need to do data surveilance in this case. I pay money to the verge. You can infer I have a) disposable income and 2) interest in tech With those two alone you can start showing me ads. You don't even need to profile me. And that's wrong in my book. > Do you think the problem is ads here? And you still haven't answered to my POV. How is paywall stopping data surveillance? The reality is they are making you pay and serving ads. Which is the problem? How is paying solving it? The problem is the ambiguity. The old mantra says "If you're not paying for the product then i'm the product" Well i'm paying. The transaction should be clear. I give you money, you give me content. But instead that's not what you get. Because you still get profiled, you're still served ads, and sure, BETTER, ads. That's my problem.
blitzar 2y ago
> Ads are a good way to make revenue when it is done right. Russian roulette is an exhilarating and entertaining game to play when it is done right.

the_gipsy 2y ago

Ads are always bad. Poor or unemployed people get bombarded with lifestyle messages on a daily basis. That is psychologically damaging.

unsungNovelty 2y ago
Not when it is done right. Most or all podcasts and youtube channels are perfect examples of static ads. I have interacted and signed up with things cos I find them useful. Imagine, the entire podcast industry and youtube channels are dependent on static ads to make revenue. And people say it doesn't work. Static / Contextual ads means: - no data collection needed - More money to websites/apps cos they are removing google and facebook as middlemen. - Can be privacy friendly - Provide free content means more reach - Lesser scams, ad malwares and other scammy things Behavioural ads with data economy over api's became mainstream because we had to directly make relationships with people who want to show ads in our website and apps. It's time consuming and you will need a worthwhile product to show and pitch your website/ads as an ideal place for them to show their ads to. And you cannot just create a bunch of pages and setup google ads and be done with it. Delegating this has been bad for the websites/apps and for users equally. The only winners have been google, facebook like players. I have been writing an article on this topic for months. I will finish and hopefully I can make a more articulated case then.
- klez 2y ago
  How does this answer GP's claim that people who can't afford stuff are being bombarded with messages that make them feel inadequate and cause psychological damage?
akira2501 2y ago
Stop pharmaceutical ads. Stop NGOs and USAID from being able to buy ads on any issue.

mrweasel 2y ago

Another issue is that content is now being written to accommodate the ads, it's not really value in its own right anymore. So much reporting and writing is terrible, because it's seen as a cost, while the ads are the source of revenue. Even if you pay to not see the ads, then content won't change and you'll still be served the same "damaged goods". The quality of the writing doesn't go up when you're on the other side of the paywall.

unsungNovelty 2y ago
I agree. The decline in writing quality is observable. There is like zero effort put into improving the writing. > Even if you pay to not see the ads, then content won't change and you'll still be served the same "damaged goods". The quality of the writing doesn't go up when you're on the other side of the paywall. Exactly. And the same like I have said above applies for data collection as well. Paywalls don't stop data collection and data surveillance.

manuelmoreale 2y ago

> Ads are not the problem. I'll quote you "this is a bad take". What's bad is asking me to pay money and then serving me premium ads because you now know i'm someone with disposable income and i'm willing to give it to a premium publication. > Ads are a good way to make revenue when it is done right. In an ideal world, yes. That ideal world is long gone.

unsungNovelty 2y ago
> I'll quote you "this is a bad take". What's bad is asking me to pay money and then serving me premium ads because you now know i'm someone with disposable income and i'm willing to give it to a premium publication. > What's bad is asking me to pay money and then serving me premium ads because you now know i'm someone with disposable income and i'm willing to give it to a premium publication. OK. Let's first examine 2 complaints about ads: 1. Ads are an annoyance. 2. Ads with surveillance and data economy are bad. If your problem is the first one, I don't have anything else to say than the fact that Ads are not going anywhere. My arguments are all against and about the 2nd point. I think ads are a good way to make revenue. And it should NOT be done with data surveillance but with curated and useful ads. Exactly. Do you think the problem is ads here? And you still haven't answered to my POV. How is paywall stopping data surveillance? The reality is they are making you pay and serving ads. Which is the problem? How is paying solving it? > In an ideal world, yes. That ideal world is long gone. If we are to fix the problem, this is what we should do. Find THAT ideal world.
- manuelmoreale 2y ago
  > I don't have anything else to say than the fact that Ads are not going anywhere. Why? You state that as if Ads are a product of the universe we live in and we need to accept them like gravity. > And it should NOT be done with data surveillance but with curated and useful ads. Agree in principle. The problem is that you don't even need to do data surveilance in this case. I pay money to the verge. You can infer I have a) disposable income and 2) interest in tech With those two alone you can start showing me ads. You don't even need to profile me. And that's wrong in my book. > Do you think the problem is ads here? And you still haven't answered to my POV. How is paywall stopping data surveillance? The reality is they are making you pay and serving ads. Which is the problem? How is paying solving it? The problem is the ambiguity. The old mantra says "If you're not paying for the product then i'm the product" Well i'm paying. The transaction should be clear. I give you money, you give me content. But instead that's not what you get. Because you still get profiled, you're still served ads, and sure, BETTER, ads. That's my problem.

blitzar 2y ago

> Ads are a good way to make revenue when it is done right. Russian roulette is an exhilarating and entertaining game to play when it is done right.