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There is a huge problem with conflating homeless and drug abuse problems, with the latter drawing empathy and funding away from the former. These are two very d

There is a huge problem with conflating homeless and drug abuse problems, with the latter drawing empathy and funding away from the former. These are two very different problems with very different solutions. These former you just need housing, maybe job assistance, the latter you need millions of dollars in treatment and related assistance per case that has a very high chance of failing.

potato3732842 2y ago
There is a huge problem with people portraying the problems as not connected. A drug addiction problem is a fast track to homelessness for just about anybody. And drug addiction will prevent anyone who's homeless from getting out because it sucks up any income that could be used to level up in any way.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  Drug addicts on the street has become people's impression of homelessness, but it is a completely dishonest one. Yes, that's a problem, no, homes aren't going to help solve it. Low barrier housing (where drug addicts can live without curtailing their lifestyles) is a quick way to lose support for all homeless programs in your region (no one wants to live near low barrier housing), and that adversely effects the larger problem that is actually solvable (housing affordability for functioning people). Yes, ideally we have infinite resources and we can solve the drug addiction problem without becoming China or Singapore and just stigmatizing the problem to death. But we don't, and dumping in 95% of our funds allocated to homelessness to what is really a drug addiction problem, and barely seeing any progress in either problem, is eventually going to wear the public out.
- scotty79 2y ago
  > A drug addiction problem is a fast track to homelessness for just about anybody Also homelessness is a fast track to addiction problems for many people. If you feel that bad you are prone to do anything to make it less bad even briefly.
- nonameiguess 2y ago
  This seems to be a common belief on Hacker News but why? I don't claim to be an expert on these matters, but I've lived in downtown Dallas for about a decade now and spend a lot of time on the street, encountering many unsheltered, chronic homeless. I've also known a fair number of people with drug problems. My first wife was addicted to opioid pills. My brother-in-law has had serious heroin problems, OD'd twice, spent time in prison. My two best friends from high school include one guy who was addicted to speed and did a lot of ecstasy and hallucinogens on top of that, the other was a bad enough alcoholic that it killed her at 36. My wife is an alcoholic who has been hospitalized twice with acute liver failure and vitamin deficiencies. Not a single one of these people was ever homeless. My wife is a 20+ year engineer with a top secret clearance. The homeless people I meet, on the other hand, completely run the gamut. I met married couple in their early 20s a few weeks back that stopped to talk to me about skateboarding and showed me pictures of their dogs. I showed them pictures of my cats. They lost their jobs, had no family support, and didn't want to go to a shelter because they've have to give up the dogs, so they lived in a tent down by the cargo rail. Another guy I met the week before that was obviously completely insane. He emptied a bottle of hot sauce on me and threatened to stab me for making noise on a public bridge at 8 AM an hour past sunrise and waking him up. I had at least 8 inches and 80 pounds on him and he was trying to fight me anyway. I don't think the reasons boil down to something as simple as they're all drug addicts and drug addiction is a guaranteed path to homelessness. Even for the openly crazy, antisocial people that are obviously who the San Francisco tech crowd are actually bothered by, I don't understand what the proposed solutions from the anti-housing crowd are. If we don't house them and don't treat them, are we throwing them all in prison for life? Executing them? If we don't do either of these things, they're living animals that have to eat, sleep, and shit somewhere. You might prefer it be somewhere you'll never see it, but where? What is a solution that isn't just making it someone else's problem?
  - sagarm 2y ago
    > If we don't house them and don't treat them, are we throwing them all in prison for life? Executing them? If we don't do either of these things, they're living animals that have to eat, sleep, and shit somewhere. You might prefer it be somewhere you'll never see it, but where? What is a solution that isn't just making it someone else's problem? Making it someone else's problem is what most of the country has chosen. As this thread notes, SF's homeless population is increasingly from outside the city. Trying to resolve this at the city level is not sustainable.

potato3732842 2y ago

There is a huge problem with people portraying the problems as not connected. A drug addiction problem is a fast track to homelessness for just about anybody. And drug addiction will prevent anyone who's homeless from getting out because it sucks up any income that could be used to level up in any way.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
Drug addicts on the street has become people's impression of homelessness, but it is a completely dishonest one. Yes, that's a problem, no, homes aren't going to help solve it. Low barrier housing (where drug addicts can live without curtailing their lifestyles) is a quick way to lose support for all homeless programs in your region (no one wants to live near low barrier housing), and that adversely effects the larger problem that is actually solvable (housing affordability for functioning people). Yes, ideally we have infinite resources and we can solve the drug addiction problem without becoming China or Singapore and just stigmatizing the problem to death. But we don't, and dumping in 95% of our funds allocated to homelessness to what is really a drug addiction problem, and barely seeing any progress in either problem, is eventually going to wear the public out.
scotty79 2y ago
> A drug addiction problem is a fast track to homelessness for just about anybody Also homelessness is a fast track to addiction problems for many people. If you feel that bad you are prone to do anything to make it less bad even briefly.
nonameiguess 2y ago
This seems to be a common belief on Hacker News but why? I don't claim to be an expert on these matters, but I've lived in downtown Dallas for about a decade now and spend a lot of time on the street, encountering many unsheltered, chronic homeless. I've also known a fair number of people with drug problems. My first wife was addicted to opioid pills. My brother-in-law has had serious heroin problems, OD'd twice, spent time in prison. My two best friends from high school include one guy who was addicted to speed and did a lot of ecstasy and hallucinogens on top of that, the other was a bad enough alcoholic that it killed her at 36. My wife is an alcoholic who has been hospitalized twice with acute liver failure and vitamin deficiencies. Not a single one of these people was ever homeless. My wife is a 20+ year engineer with a top secret clearance. The homeless people I meet, on the other hand, completely run the gamut. I met married couple in their early 20s a few weeks back that stopped to talk to me about skateboarding and showed me pictures of their dogs. I showed them pictures of my cats. They lost their jobs, had no family support, and didn't want to go to a shelter because they've have to give up the dogs, so they lived in a tent down by the cargo rail. Another guy I met the week before that was obviously completely insane. He emptied a bottle of hot sauce on me and threatened to stab me for making noise on a public bridge at 8 AM an hour past sunrise and waking him up. I had at least 8 inches and 80 pounds on him and he was trying to fight me anyway. I don't think the reasons boil down to something as simple as they're all drug addicts and drug addiction is a guaranteed path to homelessness. Even for the openly crazy, antisocial people that are obviously who the San Francisco tech crowd are actually bothered by, I don't understand what the proposed solutions from the anti-housing crowd are. If we don't house them and don't treat them, are we throwing them all in prison for life? Executing them? If we don't do either of these things, they're living animals that have to eat, sleep, and shit somewhere. You might prefer it be somewhere you'll never see it, but where? What is a solution that isn't just making it someone else's problem?
- sagarm 2y ago
  > If we don't house them and don't treat them, are we throwing them all in prison for life? Executing them? If we don't do either of these things, they're living animals that have to eat, sleep, and shit somewhere. You might prefer it be somewhere you'll never see it, but where? What is a solution that isn't just making it someone else's problem? Making it someone else's problem is what most of the country has chosen. As this thread notes, SF's homeless population is increasingly from outside the city. Trying to resolve this at the city level is not sustainable.