5 ms·

What do you mean? They literally bring in money for free. It’s the best type of value.

listenallyall 2y ago
Retirees don't earn income, so don't pay income tax. Increased demand for housing raises prices for everyone including natives. And typically, retirees require healthcare services well above the population average.
- xenospn 2y ago
  Counterpoint: all they do is consume, pay sales tax, and quite possibly fly home for healthcare.
  - listenallyall 2y ago
    Yes, some do. But others don't, and your earlier assertion "they bring in money for free" is certainly not universally true.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  Retirees absolutely pay income tax. Withdrawing from a traditional IRA/401k generates ordinary income at the current federal tax rate. And any capital gains is taxed (albeit at a lower rate) when sold. It's a fraction of what they likely paid during their career, but it is not nothing. Depending on the country of retiring, this could have majority tax implications. It's a big reason why people choose to retire in certain states: additional income tax on retirement income is possible, depending on the state.
  - listenallyall 2y ago
    Even if not zero, retirees' income is much lower than working people on average, and that income is taxed at lower rates. Further, tax paid to the US doesn't help the retirement country.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      If they're residing in the other country, they're supposed to be paying income taxes to that country, in addition to taxes to the US. The taxes to the US will probably be canceled out by the tax exemption they can claim for the taxes paid locally though, but they still have to file in the US unless they renounce their US citizenship.
      - listenallyall 2y ago
        Very few people pay income taxes to a foreign government that they reside in unless they are actively working and collecting a paycheck. A passive income stream such as collecting social security or a pension is very rarely taxed. Even things like collecting rent as a landlord back in the home country or earning interest on a savings account there, are also very rarely taxed.
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        Then they're cheating on their taxes, and that government should probably look into how that person can afford to stay there with zero income. A lot of countries have tax treaties with the US to cover this sort of thing.
- janalsncm 2y ago
  > Retirees don't earn income, so don't pay income tax. The government can and often does find other ways to tax people. > Increased demand for housing raises prices for everyone including natives. While true locally, at a national level immigration is typically small compared to native populations. It is a manageable problem. > And typically, retirees require healthcare services well above the population average. In other words, they will be forced to put money into the local economy. They’re paying out of pocket, not on public assistance. Comparatively wealthy foreigners that spend a lot of money on the local economy is any government’s wet dream. It’s a significant boost to their tax base and soft political power. I plan on retiring in a country like Thailand because as long as you don’t criticize the king, you’ll be treated like one.
  - listenallyall 2y ago
    Thailand is an amazing country and dollars/euros/pounds go a long way. But there are also a ton of Westerners who either ran out of money (or never had any) who live like leeches and even some who "begpack." Plenty more who just barely get by as a language instructor or such. I'm not claiming there are no productive or welcome foreign retirees -- there are many. But I was responding to "xenospn"'s comment that they bring in money for free, which is absolutely not universally true.
    - draven 2y ago
      How can you legally stay in Thailand with no retirement or work visa? I don't remember the details (I had a work visa and retirement is still 2 decades away at least) but to get a retirement visa (valid for one year) you need proof of sufficient funds and health insurance.
      - labaron 2y ago
        A lot of people do visa runs every 3 months. And there’s also the DTV, which is relatively easy to get and lets you stay half the year.
forgotoldacc 2y ago
There's a reason most countries offer no such thing as a retirement visa, except certain low income countries where overcharging clueless foreigners is the best way to get ahead in life. It's because old people are a burden on the medical system and a class of people who'll pay 5x the average for housing prices locals out. Whoever is renting out housing is probably living comfortably thousands of kilometers away.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
  >certain low income countries where overcharging clueless foreigners is the best way to get ahead in life. This is basically a snide way of saying that "yes, retiring to a country with low cost of living is often a mutually beneficial transaction, for both the retiree and the country in question" * As demand for medical services grows, the price goes up, incentivizing more people to get medical training * As demand for housing grows, build more housing * Gradually expand issuance of retirement visas, so supply can grow in response to demand
  - forgotoldacc 2y ago
    It's not a snide way of saying it. I'm saying it only benefits a small portion of truly poor countries where people have absolutely nothing. There's a reason countries push retirees out, barring the ones who are incredibly rich, once they develop into a middle economy. It's because a typical retiree making a low six figures or less becomes literal dead weight. Locals can make more money than them while actually doing a job. Thailand is pushing foreign non-workers out because they're developed to the point that they don't need or want those people. Decades ago, Thailand was incredibly poor. One retiree could splurge a bit of cash and pay the wages of dozens of people. That era is gone. Now it's just people acting like they own the place and driving up prices of property that locals are now competing for. And yes, they could incentivize more people to become doctors for foreigners. But not everyone wants to grow up to be a servant and literally wiping the bums of an elite class of elderly colonists. Some prefer to work in other fields. And yes, they could build new houses. Your home country could build new houses too. Retire at home and just build a new house there instead of going to a "cheaper" country. If it's too expensive at home, just get more money and build more. And no, the won't expand issuance of visas because they need to take care of their own elderly.

Retirees don't earn income, so don't pay income tax. Increased demand for housing raises prices for everyone including natives. And typically, retirees require healthcare services well above the population average.

xenospn 2y ago
Counterpoint: all they do is consume, pay sales tax, and quite possibly fly home for healthcare.
- listenallyall 2y ago
  Yes, some do. But others don't, and your earlier assertion "they bring in money for free" is certainly not universally true.
Kirby64 2y ago
Retirees absolutely pay income tax. Withdrawing from a traditional IRA/401k generates ordinary income at the current federal tax rate. And any capital gains is taxed (albeit at a lower rate) when sold. It's a fraction of what they likely paid during their career, but it is not nothing. Depending on the country of retiring, this could have majority tax implications. It's a big reason why people choose to retire in certain states: additional income tax on retirement income is possible, depending on the state.
- listenallyall 2y ago
  Even if not zero, retirees' income is much lower than working people on average, and that income is taxed at lower rates. Further, tax paid to the US doesn't help the retirement country.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    If they're residing in the other country, they're supposed to be paying income taxes to that country, in addition to taxes to the US. The taxes to the US will probably be canceled out by the tax exemption they can claim for the taxes paid locally though, but they still have to file in the US unless they renounce their US citizenship.
    - listenallyall 2y ago
      Very few people pay income taxes to a foreign government that they reside in unless they are actively working and collecting a paycheck. A passive income stream such as collecting social security or a pension is very rarely taxed. Even things like collecting rent as a landlord back in the home country or earning interest on a savings account there, are also very rarely taxed.
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        Then they're cheating on their taxes, and that government should probably look into how that person can afford to stay there with zero income. A lot of countries have tax treaties with the US to cover this sort of thing.
janalsncm 2y ago
> Retirees don't earn income, so don't pay income tax. The government can and often does find other ways to tax people. > Increased demand for housing raises prices for everyone including natives. While true locally, at a national level immigration is typically small compared to native populations. It is a manageable problem. > And typically, retirees require healthcare services well above the population average. In other words, they will be forced to put money into the local economy. They’re paying out of pocket, not on public assistance. Comparatively wealthy foreigners that spend a lot of money on the local economy is any government’s wet dream. It’s a significant boost to their tax base and soft political power. I plan on retiring in a country like Thailand because as long as you don’t criticize the king, you’ll be treated like one.
- listenallyall 2y ago
  Thailand is an amazing country and dollars/euros/pounds go a long way. But there are also a ton of Westerners who either ran out of money (or never had any) who live like leeches and even some who "begpack." Plenty more who just barely get by as a language instructor or such. I'm not claiming there are no productive or welcome foreign retirees -- there are many. But I was responding to "xenospn"'s comment that they bring in money for free, which is absolutely not universally true.
  - draven 2y ago
    How can you legally stay in Thailand with no retirement or work visa? I don't remember the details (I had a work visa and retirement is still 2 decades away at least) but to get a retirement visa (valid for one year) you need proof of sufficient funds and health insurance.
    - labaron 2y ago
      A lot of people do visa runs every 3 months. And there’s also the DTV, which is relatively easy to get and lets you stay half the year.

forgotoldacc 2y ago

There's a reason most countries offer no such thing as a retirement visa, except certain low income countries where overcharging clueless foreigners is the best way to get ahead in life. It's because old people are a burden on the medical system and a class of people who'll pay 5x the average for housing prices locals out. Whoever is renting out housing is probably living comfortably thousands of kilometers away.

0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
>certain low income countries where overcharging clueless foreigners is the best way to get ahead in life. This is basically a snide way of saying that "yes, retiring to a country with low cost of living is often a mutually beneficial transaction, for both the retiree and the country in question" * As demand for medical services grows, the price goes up, incentivizing more people to get medical training * As demand for housing grows, build more housing * Gradually expand issuance of retirement visas, so supply can grow in response to demand
- forgotoldacc 2y ago
  It's not a snide way of saying it. I'm saying it only benefits a small portion of truly poor countries where people have absolutely nothing. There's a reason countries push retirees out, barring the ones who are incredibly rich, once they develop into a middle economy. It's because a typical retiree making a low six figures or less becomes literal dead weight. Locals can make more money than them while actually doing a job. Thailand is pushing foreign non-workers out because they're developed to the point that they don't need or want those people. Decades ago, Thailand was incredibly poor. One retiree could splurge a bit of cash and pay the wages of dozens of people. That era is gone. Now it's just people acting like they own the place and driving up prices of property that locals are now competing for. And yes, they could incentivize more people to become doctors for foreigners. But not everyone wants to grow up to be a servant and literally wiping the bums of an elite class of elderly colonists. Some prefer to work in other fields. And yes, they could build new houses. Your home country could build new houses too. Retire at home and just build a new house there instead of going to a "cheaper" country. If it's too expensive at home, just get more money and build more. And no, the won't expand issuance of visas because they need to take care of their own elderly.