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On the practical side of things, one important behavior that I see people frequently forget is the importance of following up. This is probably the biggest diff
by mkmk 2y ago
On the practical side of things, one important behavior that I see people frequently forget is the importance of following up. This is probably the biggest differentiator between relationships that languish in the early stages, versus those that progress along the author’s continuum.
It’s always a bit strange when you only hear from people once every few years, just as they need an intro or career advice or whatever- the beginning of those conversations is usually a bit of sheepish catch-up on what happened after you last spoke with them. Similarly, there have been times when I have felt like a dope after realizing that I failed to follow up myself after a call, and am again reaching out for another reason.
However, when you follow up with someone as simple as “Thanks for connecting me with so and so, we had a great chat” or “I tried that thing you suggested, here’s how it worked out”, you build mutual trust and enthusiasm for a successful outcome to the conversation you had. It’s a genuine and thoughtful way to grow your relationship.
- jameshush 2y agoI'll add to this: If you want to practice following up but are afraid of "bugging" someone, start by wishing 1-3 people happy birthday every day. I put every person I know birthday on one giant Google calendar and wish people happy every day. It's a super easy way to at least say "hi" to someone once a year.
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoI love this.
- sfink 2y agoI tried this, but it didn't work very well for me. Maybe I was just catching people at a bad time? They'd always brush me off with some version of "uh, it isn't my birthday" "you've said that to me every day for a week, please stop" "stay away from me". What could I be doing wrong? Am I just choosing the wrong people to try to befriend?
- BlueTemplar 2y ago> "you've said that to me every day for a week, please stop" Did you, or didn't you ??
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoI think you might be choosing the wrong people. :grimacing:
- blitzar 2y ago> bit strange when you only hear from people once every few years, just as they need an intro or career advice or whatever This might out me as a psycopath, however, cut to the f'ing chase. If it is a transactional conversation don't insult my intelligence by pretending that it isn't. Obvioulsy this can create a problem as I tend towards "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". If something is within my means and the person hasn't made it onto my shit list I love to help out, it's what makes getting up in the morning worth while. Unfortunately we are all far more powerless than anyone can imagine and actually being able to do more than point people in the right direction, offer advice or just talk to someone is incredibly rare.
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoYou're not a psychopath: I feel the same. However I still value showing them honor so I often deal with them with more kindness externally than I feel internally, recognizing my internal feeling is my own issue not theirs.
- anal_reactor 2y ago> Obvioulsy this can create a problem as I tend towards "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". The fact that most people enjoy exactly the opposite of what I do was revolutionary to me, really explained a lot, and allowed me to navigate social interactions better. Having said this, I don't see the ROI on pleasing people I don't like. I try to gauge whether someone has the same vibe as I do, and if that's not the case, then I'll be polite but that's it.
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoWhat are some primary reasons you don't like some people? Is it just a vibe mismatch like the chemical reactions the article suggests?
- anal_reactor 2y agoFirst, most common mismatch: different goals. The things I'm trying to achieve are not the things someone else is trying to achieve, which makes cooperation difficult. Or we might be trying to achieve the same thing, effectively competing for the same resources. Second, less common but still common mismatch: different emotional responses. If an event happens and I react in way A while the other person reacts in way B, either of us needs to suppress the emotional reaction, which is exhausting. I'm not willing to do that, unless genuineness is not expected by definition (at work, at family reunion).
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoI love this very much and strongly agree: I hate receiving those sheepish catch ups, especially when I anticipate an ask coming. In fact, if I sense I want to make an ask but I haven't spoken with someone in a long time, I just won't ask them for the thing because we don't have that context/rapport yet: it's a way of honoring them. Continuing to make it practical, one thing that has served me well was to maintain a list of friends (I still do this) and text them at least once every day just following up or checking in. Some like it, some don't. For those that don't, that's their choice. The topics around abandoning lost causes kind of apply there: not that these people are lost causes, but daily checkins are. That's okay, to each their own. :)
- carlosjobim 2y ago> an ask I only see people writing this here in HN. Is it some expression from old that has been revived or is it some activist thing?
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoIt's just shorthand for when people want to ask for things, common among investors (so, YC/HN).
- hollerith 2y agoSo a request, then.
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoyes
- smcin 2y agoIt's techspeak for 'a request'.
- caseyohara 2y ago
- lovich 2y agoRelationships are like a garden, they require continual, repeated effort to maintain. It doesn’t need to be an onerous amount of effort, but reaching out to people to shoot the shit once even a year is often enough to maintain the relationship for professional networks at least. In software we have an unfortunate amount of people who don’t value social connections at all so we end up with a large tranche of people who can’t get past the “but why would I talk to them without a specific reason?” argument and then lament why all of their relationships end up transactional, or even better lament why no one will help them specifically because all their relationships are transactional and they aren’t offering anything of value
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoLove this. Thank you for posting it!
- eleveriven 2y agoRelationships really are like a garden—if you don’t tend to them, they wither
- impendia 2y agoI think this is tricky. I'm someone who very highly values social connections, but finds it a little bit awkward to just "shoot the shit". I really enjoy interacting with people based on shared experiences, of whatever type -- but as you say, many people really enjoy interactions which are lower-key. You're not wrong, but interacting with others on their terms rather than yours can be a bit challenging at times, and easy to get wrong.
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoThe cool thing is though that the real ones will have grace when either side gets it wrong, and the others won't.
- the_snooze 2y ago>In software we have an unfortunate amount of people who don’t value social connections at all so we end up with a large tranche of people who can’t get past the “but why would I talk to them without a specific reason?” argument and then lament why all of their relationships end up transactional, or even better lament why no one will help them specifically because all their relationships are transactional and they aren’t offering anything of value Yup, you get a lot of people complaining about the pointlessness of small talk, but the reality is that small talk is social glue. People want to work with people they like, and you only get that by having some level of casual ease with one another. Being 100% business all the time is the opposite of casual ease.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y agoVery good point. What's the old saying "A friend in need, is a friend, indeed."? I like to have personal relationships, as opposed to corporate ones. Funny story: During the 1990s, my direct boss was a fairly low-key Japanese man. I really liked him. He was a marketing type, so we didn't really have a technical basis for our relationship. He was a decent chap, and I happily followed his orders. In return, he gave me a great deal of agency. After he returned to Japan, we'd run into each other, from time to time, and it was always a warm, effusive greeting. Years later, he was the Chairman of the Board of the corporation. I never leveraged the relationship, but my team was always treated well, at our level. We were a small technical team, and it would have been inappropriate to focus on us too much. I had very little ambition to go much higher up the corporate food chain, so all was fine. Once, he made a visit to our office (the US branch). It was a really big deal, and people were snapping to attention all over the building. He dropped by my tiny little office, to say hi. It was really amusing, to see the puzzled expressions on all the corporate bigwigs in his entourage.
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoHahaha, what a lovely story! Really shows what happens when we engage as _people_, not _opportunities_.
- ghaff 2y agoThis is a lot of the misunderstanding around "networking" you see in discussions. A lot of tech people see it as an unwelcome task/burden. Whereas, it should be generally viewed as a pleasurable opportunity to just get to know people who may (or may not) be useful at some point in the future.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoMy theory is that that term has this reputation because it is somewhat dehumanized: you _talk_ to people, you _network_ with opportunities.
- jjice 2y agoDoes anyone have any practical advice to keeping up with former remote coworkers? My last job was remote with some fantastic people, but as time has passed and the company hasn't done incredibly well, people have scattered (including myself) and I've found it tricky to keep in touch. I'll video chat with some of them once every few months online, but I only have contact with some of them this way. For others, it feels like the best contact I have is LinkedIn messages. It's usually a quick exchange about how they've been, if they've been up to anything interesting, how the kids are, and how work is - but it's all fairly brief. Maybe that's fine? Would love to hear if others have better ways to keep in touch with people they enjoyed their time with, but no longer see on a regular basis or live anywhere near.
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoWhat works for me is overt intentionality: I just tell them I'd like to continue to keep in touch with them and ask if it's okay if I sporadically text them somewhat regularly. Some folks have said outright no and that's fine, it's their choice, but others (most of them mentioned in my essay) have said yes and it's a really beautiful arrangement. Sometimes if they don't hear from me, they now proactively reach out.
- jjice 2y agoThat's a great point! I find that it's easy (for myself, at least) to gloss over the simplest and straight forward path for communication! It's always easier to be direct. I appreciate the advice!
- williamdclt 2y agoIt's a hard one. If you lived nearby, I'd say that meeting up for lunch or a drink is unbeatable. Maybe ask for their help or opinion on stuff you encounter? Whether it's technical problems, interpersonal stuff, personal musings about the industry... once every few months is probably enough, you don't have to stick to professional topics but that's probably a good way to start!
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
- gadders 2y agoThe other thing you can do is "Hey, I remember when we spoke you were interested in XX. I just found this article on it that I thought you might find interesting." It's a tiny favour, but it also shows you listened to the other person.
- tejaskumar_ 2y agoLove this!
- 3abiton 2y agoIt really depends on the long term goals, I would also argue that if there are no personal stakes in such relationships it's tough to keep track.