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Exactly and the fact that, for example, West and Central Africa are waking up [1] to the fact that France has been scamming them out of untold billions, probabl

Exactly and the fact that, for example, West and Central Africa are waking up [1] to the fact that France has been scamming them out of untold billions, probably trillions is going to shift power significantly. This is happening now. Senegal are following Chad in cutting ties with French military. [1] https://theconversation.com/cfa-franc-conditions-are-ripe-for-replacement-of-the-west-african-currency-rooted-in-colonialism-expert-226969 https://theconversation.com/cfa-franc-conditions-are-ripe-fo...

willtemperley 2y ago
Downvotes without comment are pathetic. Step up and make an argument. It's real, it's happening and Europe needs to wake up.
readthenotes1 2y ago
Because of the travle game(1) I learned that it was/is common for the leader of the former French colony to send hundreds of thousands in bribes to the president of France... (1) Travle posted here on hn months ago, but unfortunately a Webapp that downloads so I can't give you a url
spiderfarmer 2y ago
The economy is not a zero sum game. If other countries are doing well, all the better.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  >The economy is not a zero sum game. Most parts of the global economy are. If you're selling cars for example, there's a fixed amount of drivers on the road you can sell cars to, so if you're VW, you're now competing with cheaper cars from Asia for those same drivers. You can't create new drivers out of thin air to expand the market demand for cars. Once the market is saturated, without having any moat, you enter in a race to the bottom. And that's what Germany's economy is discovering right now and why Europe's share of global GDP has been declining for the past 20 years.
  - spiderfarmer 2y ago
    If other countries are doing better, they will want to buy status symbols as well. This is how Germany profited from China developing in the first place. As long as markets continue to develop, chances will continue to appear. Also, we shouldn't care about Europe's share of global GDP. We should care about how the poor people in our countries are doing. Like I said, we should maintain or improve our quality of life. Producing cars is just a means to an end.
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      You need money to take care.of the poor in your country. Where do you think that money comes from?
  - nickff 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - speeder 2y ago
      Except when you charge sky high taxes you can't lower your prices to have access to that wider market, can you?
    - jandrese 2y ago
      This is exactly where manufacturers like SAIC, BYD, and Dongfeng are winning. Building cheaper cars than were previously available and selling them in countries where "premium" brands like BMW, Toyota, Ford, Fiat, Volvo, GM, etc... don't try very hard to compete. Head to any country without a domestic auto industry to protect and see what new cars people are importing. Sure there will be some rich people buying the brands you recognize, but call an UberX and they're going to show up in a Chinese brand you've never heard of. Or some zombie brand like MG.
  - programjames 2y ago
    I think what you're really getting at is that the more efficient a market it, the closer to the Pareto frontier it is, and things become competitive instead of cooperative there.
- tmnvix 2y ago
  When you boil it all down, the economy mostly is about ownership and use of resources, and those are naturally limited. So if we're talking about doing well in terms of having greater claims to the world's resources, then it essentially is zero sum.
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    The primary sector is only a very small part of the economy though. Prices for raw materials are low because it's easy to mine etc vast quantities nowadays and there is a lot of competition in global commodities. Most minerals are found in a LOT of places all over the world.
    - tmnvix 2y ago
      Land. Total value of it is about 25 trillion in the US alone I believe. If I'm not wrong, globally stock markets are around 100 trillion (and that will include a lot of assets in the form of land).
      - HPsquared 2y ago
        25 trillion is just 1 year worth of GDP. With interest rates of 5%, that's only further evidence for my point. Edit: as an exercise, consider the land value of a typical office, and compare to the annual income of the part of the company based there, and the personal income of the employees who work there.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  "zero sum game" As others allude to, natural resources are zero sum, they are a finite resource, once they are gone, they are gone. So if an imperial power is mining resources from a 'colony', that 'colony' is being stripped of economic potential with very little to show for it. They do not both gain economically, like some allude to when maybe it is two countries sharing manufactured goods.
- SkyBelow 2y ago
  Zero sum game means for someone to benefit someone else must be worse off, but a positive sum game doesn't mean that everyone must benefit. It only opens the possibility that the total sum can go up, but that can still be because every time one player gets 10 points another player loses 3.
- jumping_frog 2y ago
  Many people don't realise. America has been exporting inflation around the world while China has been exporting deflation through cheaper goods. China is the main reason for World's prosperity.
  - ativzzz 2y ago
    And China was able to scale up the mass manufacturing of cheap goods because rich western companies dumped their money into China to capitalize that manufacturing. It's all interrelated
    - jumping_frog 2y ago
      Euro dollar system just printed that money out of thin air. It's the Chinese products which are providing value backing to that printed money

willtemperley 2y ago

Downvotes without comment are pathetic. Step up and make an argument. It's real, it's happening and Europe needs to wake up.

readthenotes1 2y ago

Because of the travle game(1) I learned that it was/is common for the leader of the former French colony to send hundreds of thousands in bribes to the president of France... (1) Travle posted here on hn months ago, but unfortunately a Webapp that downloads so I can't give you a url

spiderfarmer 2y ago

The economy is not a zero sum game. If other countries are doing well, all the better.

Cumpiler69 2y ago
>The economy is not a zero sum game. Most parts of the global economy are. If you're selling cars for example, there's a fixed amount of drivers on the road you can sell cars to, so if you're VW, you're now competing with cheaper cars from Asia for those same drivers. You can't create new drivers out of thin air to expand the market demand for cars. Once the market is saturated, without having any moat, you enter in a race to the bottom. And that's what Germany's economy is discovering right now and why Europe's share of global GDP has been declining for the past 20 years.
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  If other countries are doing better, they will want to buy status symbols as well. This is how Germany profited from China developing in the first place. As long as markets continue to develop, chances will continue to appear. Also, we shouldn't care about Europe's share of global GDP. We should care about how the poor people in our countries are doing. Like I said, we should maintain or improve our quality of life. Producing cars is just a means to an end.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    You need money to take care.of the poor in your country. Where do you think that money comes from?
- nickff 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - speeder 2y ago
    Except when you charge sky high taxes you can't lower your prices to have access to that wider market, can you?
  - jandrese 2y ago
    This is exactly where manufacturers like SAIC, BYD, and Dongfeng are winning. Building cheaper cars than were previously available and selling them in countries where "premium" brands like BMW, Toyota, Ford, Fiat, Volvo, GM, etc... don't try very hard to compete. Head to any country without a domestic auto industry to protect and see what new cars people are importing. Sure there will be some rich people buying the brands you recognize, but call an UberX and they're going to show up in a Chinese brand you've never heard of. Or some zombie brand like MG.
- programjames 2y ago
  I think what you're really getting at is that the more efficient a market it, the closer to the Pareto frontier it is, and things become competitive instead of cooperative there.
tmnvix 2y ago
When you boil it all down, the economy mostly is about ownership and use of resources, and those are naturally limited. So if we're talking about doing well in terms of having greater claims to the world's resources, then it essentially is zero sum.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  The primary sector is only a very small part of the economy though. Prices for raw materials are low because it's easy to mine etc vast quantities nowadays and there is a lot of competition in global commodities. Most minerals are found in a LOT of places all over the world.
  - tmnvix 2y ago
    Land. Total value of it is about 25 trillion in the US alone I believe. If I'm not wrong, globally stock markets are around 100 trillion (and that will include a lot of assets in the form of land).
    - HPsquared 2y ago
      25 trillion is just 1 year worth of GDP. With interest rates of 5%, that's only further evidence for my point. Edit: as an exercise, consider the land value of a typical office, and compare to the annual income of the part of the company based there, and the personal income of the employees who work there.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
"zero sum game" As others allude to, natural resources are zero sum, they are a finite resource, once they are gone, they are gone. So if an imperial power is mining resources from a 'colony', that 'colony' is being stripped of economic potential with very little to show for it. They do not both gain economically, like some allude to when maybe it is two countries sharing manufactured goods.
SkyBelow 2y ago
Zero sum game means for someone to benefit someone else must be worse off, but a positive sum game doesn't mean that everyone must benefit. It only opens the possibility that the total sum can go up, but that can still be because every time one player gets 10 points another player loses 3.
jumping_frog 2y ago
Many people don't realise. America has been exporting inflation around the world while China has been exporting deflation through cheaper goods. China is the main reason for World's prosperity.
- ativzzz 2y ago
  And China was able to scale up the mass manufacturing of cheap goods because rich western companies dumped their money into China to capitalize that manufacturing. It's all interrelated
  - jumping_frog 2y ago
    Euro dollar system just printed that money out of thin air. It's the Chinese products which are providing value backing to that printed money