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I thought the question was "why should I care about productivity if it doesn't necessarily make my life better?". The article didn't really make the case that a

by adamc 2y ago

I thought the question was "why should I care about productivity if it doesn't necessarily make my life better?". The article didn't really make the case that average workers were benefiting from this.

WalterBright 2y ago
The Law of Supply and Demand means that worker total compensation tends to track their productivity.
- Jensson 2y ago
  Would you say that construction is way more productive today in USA than 40 years ago? It seems like stuff are more expensive and less productive at the same time today.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    If you've ever tried to build a house in the US, you'll find out where the money goes. I have, and there's good reason why I am not in the construction business. Oh, and check this out: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/developer-martin-selig-defaults-on-240m-debt-as-seattle-office-woes-mount/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/developer-martin-selig... That's gotta hurt!
    - Jensson 2y ago
      So you agree USA has problems? That is the point, the source of that inequality doesn't matter the inequality is still hurting you. There are seemingly less such problems in Europe.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        Of course the USA has problems. I've pointed out several. But inequality is not a problem. People wanting to make it big come to the USA. That's why the USA has the biggest, most successful, companies that drive the US gdp forward. Inequality is only a problem for people who are envious.
        Jensson 2y ago
        Healthcare using regulations to block competition and line their pockets is a big source to that inequality, being forced to pay into that isn't envy. But I get your point, inequality isn't a problem in itself, but seeing your money go to rich people for no good reason does feel very bad even if the problem is the corruption and not the inequality.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        Healthcare problems are nearly all caused by heavy government involvement in every facet of it. > seeing your money go to rich people for no good reason Anyone can buy stocks and get their share. For example, NVDA. If you'd bought some, you'd have made quite a lot of bank, and made your friends unhappy with you because of the money you unfairly made for no good reason. I know many ordinary schlubs who became multimillionaires by simply buying NVDA, MSFT, AMZN, AAPL, etc.
        piva00 2y ago
        > Inequality is only a problem for people who are envious. Or when you have to pass by homeless tent cities in your downtown. Or when you are the victim of crime because the kid pulling a gun on you is envious because their family is poor and you're rich. Extreme inequality brings social strife in multiple layers, if you're individualistic you might not care for it but for a society it fosters resentment and erosion of social cohesion. But I don't think you care about that in general.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        > Extreme inequality brings social strife in multiple layers This is the conventional wisdom, but I can't think of a revolt in a free market country. > But I don't think you care about that in general. My reading of history is that free markets bring the greatest prosperity to the greatest number of people. No other economic system comes close. Cutting other people down to size because you're envious just makes things worse. It produces economic stagnation, and the demand for "equity" is endless and endlessly makes things worse. It doesn't end well. Be careful what you wish for. Keep in mind that the most prosperous companies are in America and bring that prosperity to Americans and are the envy of the world.
- ossobuco 2y ago
  Yet, if you look at real wages over time, they're stagnating in pretty much every developed country. Productivity has gone up consistently while wages lag far behind. Where is all that value going to? Because it isn't certainly being left on the table.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    The extra value goes to the government. Dealing with the huge mass of government sucks up a lot of value, not including the heavy taxes. Take a look at the size of government over time. Where do you think the money comes from to pay for that?
    - bluecheese452 2y ago
      Like your family with your dad’s military job?
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        Where do you think the money comes from to pay for the military?
  - 9rx 2y ago
    > if you look at real wages over time, they're stagnating in pretty much every developed country. If you look at real incomes over time, they've been stagnant since the dawn of time; or at least as far back as we have kept track. There was once wage growth because wages started from zero. It wasn't that many years ago that people didn't sell labor, only things. As we have transitioned into a labor economy, wages started to become a larger portion of one's income. To the point that nowadays more or less 100% of the average person's income is from wages. So, with incomes and wages now being effectively equivalent, there is no room for wages to grow further. To do that now, incomes would also need to rise, and that has never happened.
    - ossobuco 2y ago
      This doesn't make any sense to me. Wages have steadily raised at the same rate of productivity between the end of WWII and the 1970s. People started selling their labor centuries before that.
- achierius 2y ago
  It really doesn't, that's a crazy reach to make.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    The LoS&D is always in play. In this case, entrepreneurs are always looking for a higher margin business. The effect of this is to lower those margins. Nothing "crazy" about it. The "unintended side effects" of government policies are nearly always the result of ignoring the LoS&D or pretending it doesn't exist.
    - marcosdumay 2y ago
      The amount of things the "law" of supply and demand predicts is literally zero.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        You obey it yourself. Have you ever bought anything that was on sale? Have you ever negotiated a price?
        marcosdumay 2y ago
        A "law" that predicts nothing? Yeah, pretty sure I obey it exactly. Supply and demand is a framework you can use to write your hypothesis in. It's not a law that predicts things.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        The reason collectivism fails every time is because they believe that the LoS&D does not exist.

by adamc 2y ago

WalterBright 2y ago

The Law of Supply and Demand means that worker total compensation tends to track their productivity.

Jensson 2y ago
Would you say that construction is way more productive today in USA than 40 years ago? It seems like stuff are more expensive and less productive at the same time today.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  If you've ever tried to build a house in the US, you'll find out where the money goes. I have, and there's good reason why I am not in the construction business. Oh, and check this out: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/developer-martin-selig-defaults-on-240m-debt-as-seattle-office-woes-mount/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/developer-martin-selig... That's gotta hurt!
  - Jensson 2y ago
    So you agree USA has problems? That is the point, the source of that inequality doesn't matter the inequality is still hurting you. There are seemingly less such problems in Europe.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      Of course the USA has problems. I've pointed out several. But inequality is not a problem. People wanting to make it big come to the USA. That's why the USA has the biggest, most successful, companies that drive the US gdp forward. Inequality is only a problem for people who are envious.
      - Jensson 2y ago
        Healthcare using regulations to block competition and line their pockets is a big source to that inequality, being forced to pay into that isn't envy. But I get your point, inequality isn't a problem in itself, but seeing your money go to rich people for no good reason does feel very bad even if the problem is the corruption and not the inequality.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        Healthcare problems are nearly all caused by heavy government involvement in every facet of it. > seeing your money go to rich people for no good reason Anyone can buy stocks and get their share. For example, NVDA. If you'd bought some, you'd have made quite a lot of bank, and made your friends unhappy with you because of the money you unfairly made for no good reason. I know many ordinary schlubs who became multimillionaires by simply buying NVDA, MSFT, AMZN, AAPL, etc.
      - piva00 2y ago
        > Inequality is only a problem for people who are envious. Or when you have to pass by homeless tent cities in your downtown. Or when you are the victim of crime because the kid pulling a gun on you is envious because their family is poor and you're rich. Extreme inequality brings social strife in multiple layers, if you're individualistic you might not care for it but for a society it fosters resentment and erosion of social cohesion. But I don't think you care about that in general.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        > Extreme inequality brings social strife in multiple layers This is the conventional wisdom, but I can't think of a revolt in a free market country. > But I don't think you care about that in general. My reading of history is that free markets bring the greatest prosperity to the greatest number of people. No other economic system comes close. Cutting other people down to size because you're envious just makes things worse. It produces economic stagnation, and the demand for "equity" is endless and endlessly makes things worse. It doesn't end well. Be careful what you wish for. Keep in mind that the most prosperous companies are in America and bring that prosperity to Americans and are the envy of the world.
ossobuco 2y ago
Yet, if you look at real wages over time, they're stagnating in pretty much every developed country. Productivity has gone up consistently while wages lag far behind. Where is all that value going to? Because it isn't certainly being left on the table.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  The extra value goes to the government. Dealing with the huge mass of government sucks up a lot of value, not including the heavy taxes. Take a look at the size of government over time. Where do you think the money comes from to pay for that?
  - bluecheese452 2y ago
    Like your family with your dad’s military job?
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      Where do you think the money comes from to pay for the military?
- 9rx 2y ago
  > if you look at real wages over time, they're stagnating in pretty much every developed country. If you look at real incomes over time, they've been stagnant since the dawn of time; or at least as far back as we have kept track. There was once wage growth because wages started from zero. It wasn't that many years ago that people didn't sell labor, only things. As we have transitioned into a labor economy, wages started to become a larger portion of one's income. To the point that nowadays more or less 100% of the average person's income is from wages. So, with incomes and wages now being effectively equivalent, there is no room for wages to grow further. To do that now, incomes would also need to rise, and that has never happened.
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    This doesn't make any sense to me. Wages have steadily raised at the same rate of productivity between the end of WWII and the 1970s. People started selling their labor centuries before that.
achierius 2y ago
It really doesn't, that's a crazy reach to make.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  The LoS&D is always in play. In this case, entrepreneurs are always looking for a higher margin business. The effect of this is to lower those margins. Nothing "crazy" about it. The "unintended side effects" of government policies are nearly always the result of ignoring the LoS&D or pretending it doesn't exist.
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    The amount of things the "law" of supply and demand predicts is literally zero.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      You obey it yourself. Have you ever bought anything that was on sale? Have you ever negotiated a price?
      - marcosdumay 2y ago
        A "law" that predicts nothing? Yeah, pretty sure I obey it exactly. Supply and demand is a framework you can use to write your hypothesis in. It's not a law that predicts things.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        The reason collectivism fails every time is because they believe that the LoS&D does not exist.