4 ms·

> your consciousness shuts down. Consciousness not a single isolated process and describing a lull in activity as "shutting down" is incorrect. > So, each mor

> your consciousness shuts down. Consciousness not a single isolated process and describing a lull in activity as "shutting down" is incorrect. > So, each morning is a copy of you wakes up? Obviously not. Many of these processes also happen in reverse when you are awake. So when I go to sleep I'm tired and in a different mood. When did that "copy" get made exactly? > Or do you draw a line in the sand and say that is different. You can easily ask "how much of my conscious state is controlled by my body's chemical state?" If that's a non trivial amount then simply copying and hoisting my memories into a different body is clearly going to have a non trivial impact. To the extent that it's easy to say "that would not be /me/."

chii 2y ago
> Consciousness not a single isolated process and describing a lull in activity as "shutting down" is incorrect. but there is indeed a discontinuity in your consciousness when you sleep. This discontinuity cannot be distinguished from the discontinuity arising from a copy of your brain on first "restart". So how do you reconcile this discontinuity?
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  > This discontinuity cannot be distinguished It can be, though. I don’t see how the discontinuity bit is the defining factor. Regardless equating humans with digital computers and using analogies like that doesn’t make a lot sense to begin with.
- akira2501 2y ago
  > but there is indeed a discontinuity in your consciousness when you sleep. Yet you dream and can remember your dreams. Your dreams can be influenced by things occurring around you in your sleep. Some people do this on purpose and find that they are more reliably able to do it with practice. So how are you defining "discontinuity?" I don't see one at all. > arising from a copy of your brain on first "restart". You're rather certain of the semantics of something that does not exist and that you haven't described any sort of process for. What if you can initiate a copy while I'm awake? Am I required to be asleep or sedated into an artificial coma in order to make this copy? Why is that so? Are my short term memories excluded? Is my stomach equally full? Do I have the same wounds? Do I need to pee? > So how do you reconcile this discontinuity? How do you explain sleep walking? Or narcolepsy. In your model of discontinuities?
  - rcxdude 2y ago
    >Yet you dream and can remember your dreams. Your dreams can be influenced by things occurring around you in your sleep. Some people do this on purpose and find that they are more reliably able to do it with practice. So how are you defining "discontinuity?" I don't see one at all. Dreams aren't continuous throughout sleep, so this seems pretty irrelevant to whether there's a discontinuity in the first place, you're just saying there may be multiple during a given night's sleep.
    - akira2501 2y ago
      > Dreams aren't continuous throughout sleep What do you base this assertion on? > so this seems pretty irrelevant to whether there's a discontinuity in the first place Have you proven there is one? Or are you just saying "sleep is really weird so that must be a 'conscious discontinuity.'" I'm pointing out the obvious flaws in this logic. > you're just saying there may be multiple during a given night's sleep. No, you're saying that, and I'm asking you to define it.
      - rcxdude 2y ago
        >What do you base this assertion on? It's a pretty well understood part of sleep research. Sleep has different phases, only REM, the lightest part of sleep, is associated with dreaming. Also, it matches up with my experience of dreams and basically all the reports I've seen from others on dreams: there's not a continuous experience from falling asleep to dreams, there's being in the process of falling asleep, then there's being in a dream, and the experience is discontinuous, the transition between wakefullness and dreaming is not experienced, nor is the transition between different dreams. (I've also personally experienced a very sharp discontinuity around sleep, once or twice, where I have literally 'blinked' while looking out my bedroom window and seen it go from dark to bright light, experiencing nothing of the hours in between. Though I suppose in many ways this is a much more continuous conscious experience than I normally have when sleeping, where waking up feels much more disjoint from falling asleep)
        2y ago
- coldtea 2y ago
  >but there is indeed a discontinuity in your consciousness when you sleep. This discontinuity cannot be distinguished from the discontinuity arising from a copy of your brain on first "restart". That amounts to saying "every consciousness discontinuity is of the same level". I.e. that waking from sleep has the same distance from "you" before sleeping, as would a replica of you created by scanning your brain and uploading it to it. Let's put it this way: if we can co-exist, it's not me.

chii 2y ago

> Consciousness not a single isolated process and describing a lull in activity as "shutting down" is incorrect. but there is indeed a discontinuity in your consciousness when you sleep. This discontinuity cannot be distinguished from the discontinuity arising from a copy of your brain on first "restart". So how do you reconcile this discontinuity?

wqaatwt 2y ago
> This discontinuity cannot be distinguished It can be, though. I don’t see how the discontinuity bit is the defining factor. Regardless equating humans with digital computers and using analogies like that doesn’t make a lot sense to begin with.
akira2501 2y ago
> but there is indeed a discontinuity in your consciousness when you sleep. Yet you dream and can remember your dreams. Your dreams can be influenced by things occurring around you in your sleep. Some people do this on purpose and find that they are more reliably able to do it with practice. So how are you defining "discontinuity?" I don't see one at all. > arising from a copy of your brain on first "restart". You're rather certain of the semantics of something that does not exist and that you haven't described any sort of process for. What if you can initiate a copy while I'm awake? Am I required to be asleep or sedated into an artificial coma in order to make this copy? Why is that so? Are my short term memories excluded? Is my stomach equally full? Do I have the same wounds? Do I need to pee? > So how do you reconcile this discontinuity? How do you explain sleep walking? Or narcolepsy. In your model of discontinuities?
- rcxdude 2y ago
  >Yet you dream and can remember your dreams. Your dreams can be influenced by things occurring around you in your sleep. Some people do this on purpose and find that they are more reliably able to do it with practice. So how are you defining "discontinuity?" I don't see one at all. Dreams aren't continuous throughout sleep, so this seems pretty irrelevant to whether there's a discontinuity in the first place, you're just saying there may be multiple during a given night's sleep.
  - akira2501 2y ago
    > Dreams aren't continuous throughout sleep What do you base this assertion on? > so this seems pretty irrelevant to whether there's a discontinuity in the first place Have you proven there is one? Or are you just saying "sleep is really weird so that must be a 'conscious discontinuity.'" I'm pointing out the obvious flaws in this logic. > you're just saying there may be multiple during a given night's sleep. No, you're saying that, and I'm asking you to define it.
    - rcxdude 2y ago
      >What do you base this assertion on? It's a pretty well understood part of sleep research. Sleep has different phases, only REM, the lightest part of sleep, is associated with dreaming. Also, it matches up with my experience of dreams and basically all the reports I've seen from others on dreams: there's not a continuous experience from falling asleep to dreams, there's being in the process of falling asleep, then there's being in a dream, and the experience is discontinuous, the transition between wakefullness and dreaming is not experienced, nor is the transition between different dreams. (I've also personally experienced a very sharp discontinuity around sleep, once or twice, where I have literally 'blinked' while looking out my bedroom window and seen it go from dark to bright light, experiencing nothing of the hours in between. Though I suppose in many ways this is a much more continuous conscious experience than I normally have when sleeping, where waking up feels much more disjoint from falling asleep)
      - 2y ago
coldtea 2y ago
>but there is indeed a discontinuity in your consciousness when you sleep. This discontinuity cannot be distinguished from the discontinuity arising from a copy of your brain on first "restart". That amounts to saying "every consciousness discontinuity is of the same level". I.e. that waking from sleep has the same distance from "you" before sleeping, as would a replica of you created by scanning your brain and uploading it to it. Let's put it this way: if we can co-exist, it's not me.