7 ms·

It sounds like the National Assembly just needs to meet & vote to counter this?

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> sounds like the National Assembly just needs to meet & vote to counter this If the President is accusing "the country’s opposition of controlling the parliament, sympathizing with North Korea and paralyzing the government with anti-state activities," that vote will take place without the opposition. (It's mindblowing they left this in their Constitution after the 80s.)
- pmontra 2y ago
  A question from the other side of the world: if the opposition is controlling the parliament, isn't that the majority and isn't the opposition controlling the president?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > if the opposition is controlling the parliament, isn't that the majority and isn't the opposition controlling the president? You're confusing prime ministers in parliamentary democracies, e.g. the UK with presidents [1]. [1] https://www.britannica.com/story/whats-the-difference-between-a-president-and-a-prime-minister https://www.britannica.com/story/whats-the-difference-betwee...
    - echoangle 2y ago
      The point still stands, if you control the parliament, aren’t you the majority and the other side is the opposition? Or how is it defined who is the opposition?
      - skydhash 2y ago
        The president is the executive alongside the ministers. The opposition is the other parties that have an opposite view on things.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > point still stands, if you control the parliament, aren’t you the majority and the other side is the opposition? In a parliamentary democracy, the governing coalition and opposition are clearly delineated. In a presidential system, a legislature controlled by a party different from the president tends to be referred to as an opposition legislature, e.g. the House is currently in opposition to Biden.
      - sandworm101 2y ago
        The opposition is whoever is not in power. Anyone complaining about being locked out is clearly not in power, making them the de facto oppposition party regardless of official labels.
      - School-Cotton 2y ago
        In a presidential system the president’s party is the government and the other parties are the opposition. Doesn’t matter how many seats in parliament anyone has.
    - skissane 2y ago
      I think the point is, the term “opposition” only really makes sense in a parliamentary system. In a Presidential system like the US, there officially speaking isn’t an “opposition”. (I don’t even think all parliamentary systems officially have an “opposition” status for the largest party/coalition outside government.) But journalists tend to impose the term on non-US presidential systems, when they wouldn’t do it to the US.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > In a Presidential system like the US, there officially speaking isn’t an “opposition” True, there's a minority and majority. > journalists tend to impose the term on non-US presidential systems Didn't President Yoon call them the opposition? Or is that a liberal translation?
- notahacker 2y ago
  The leader of his own party reportedly called it unconstitutional and vowed to stop it, so I don't think his route to rigging a Parliamentary vote in his favour is an easy one.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > I don't think his route to rigging a Parliamentary vote in his favour is an easy one The classic move is to block the legislature from assembling while one gets around to dissolving it.
    - MichaelZuo 2y ago
      Does the legislature have to meet in that specific building for it to legally count as in session? Or can they meet anywhere they choose?
    - notahacker 2y ago
      Oh, I agree that via the use of force he can do what he likes, at least so long as that force is loyal to him and other forces aren't stronger. It's just harder to create a veneer of the constitutional necessity of such a move when your own highest profile political allies apparently condemn it and pledge to "stop it with the people" instead of queuing up to rubber stamp it and do "this is a small problem with criminal elements in one party which is all resolved now" briefings to confused foreigners wondering who the real government of South Korea is. Edit: reportedly the National Assembly has actually managed to hold a vote against it. Not sure how or what the constitutional quirks are, but that's probably going to make it considerably less likely the military unites behind the President...
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        This is looking stupider by the minute. You can't half ass a coup d'etat.
        notahacker 2y ago
cyberlimerence 2y ago
From Yonhap (Korea state news): "Activities related to National Assembly, political parties banned: martial law commander." [1] "Entry, exit from National Assembly blocked after declaration of martial law." [2] [1] https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013900315 https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013900315 [2] https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013200315 https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013200315
- nurumaik 2y ago
  Is he going to ban voting next?
  - jandrese 2y ago
    I think the next step is just to jail anybody who might vote against him.
    - cogman10 2y ago
      IDK why you are grey right now because his statements reported by CNN are basically a purging of the opposition party. The entire reason he declared martial law was to eliminate the opposition.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - sidewndr46 2y ago
      Given the economics of that, it seems like it'd be pretty ineffective. It'd be easier to simply postpone elections indefinitely
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    That is what martial law is all about: pausing democratic norms to deal with an emergency. Voting, public gatherings, a free internet ... it is open season.
    - 2y ago
bananapub 2y ago
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20241203-south-korea-president-declares-emergency-martial-law https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20241203-south-korea-p... > The entrance to the National Assembly has been sealed, and MPs have been barred from entering the building, according to Yonhap.
voxic11 2y ago
National Assembly has been suspended by the military so they will have trouble meeting. > Following Yoon’s announcement, South Korea’s military proclaimed that parliament and other political gatherings that could cause “social confusion” would be suspended
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  Are they required to hold the vote within the parliament building itself?
  - card_zero 2y ago
    They're apparently (according to BBC) inside the building now anyway and waiting for the speaker to arrive and call a vote. Also special forces are there and landed helicopters on the roof, intent unclear. Edit: vote complete, declaration of martial law is voted down. Now what?
    - excalibur 2y ago
      Impeachment? Is that a thing there?
      - card_zero 2y ago
        I'm more worried about the immediate matter of tanks on the streets. If the tanks politely go back where they came from, maybe parliament could consider tweaking the constitution to prevent blockading the assembly building next time. Edit: "The South Korean military says it will maintain martial law until it is lifted by President Yoon Suk Yeol, despite the nation's parliament voting to block its enforcement". That's a bug. "the government must lift martial law" as a result of the vote, but the government is apparently the president?
      - bicolao 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Park_Geun-hye https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Park_Geun-hye so yes

> sounds like the National Assembly just needs to meet & vote to counter this If the President is accusing "the country’s opposition of controlling the parliament, sympathizing with North Korea and paralyzing the government with anti-state activities," that vote will take place without the opposition. (It's mindblowing they left this in their Constitution after the 80s.)

pmontra 2y ago
A question from the other side of the world: if the opposition is controlling the parliament, isn't that the majority and isn't the opposition controlling the president?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > if the opposition is controlling the parliament, isn't that the majority and isn't the opposition controlling the president? You're confusing prime ministers in parliamentary democracies, e.g. the UK with presidents [1]. [1] https://www.britannica.com/story/whats-the-difference-between-a-president-and-a-prime-minister https://www.britannica.com/story/whats-the-difference-betwee...
  - echoangle 2y ago
    The point still stands, if you control the parliament, aren’t you the majority and the other side is the opposition? Or how is it defined who is the opposition?
    - skydhash 2y ago
      The president is the executive alongside the ministers. The opposition is the other parties that have an opposite view on things.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > point still stands, if you control the parliament, aren’t you the majority and the other side is the opposition? In a parliamentary democracy, the governing coalition and opposition are clearly delineated. In a presidential system, a legislature controlled by a party different from the president tends to be referred to as an opposition legislature, e.g. the House is currently in opposition to Biden.
    - sandworm101 2y ago
      The opposition is whoever is not in power. Anyone complaining about being locked out is clearly not in power, making them the de facto oppposition party regardless of official labels.
    - School-Cotton 2y ago
      In a presidential system the president’s party is the government and the other parties are the opposition. Doesn’t matter how many seats in parliament anyone has.
  - skissane 2y ago
    I think the point is, the term “opposition” only really makes sense in a parliamentary system. In a Presidential system like the US, there officially speaking isn’t an “opposition”. (I don’t even think all parliamentary systems officially have an “opposition” status for the largest party/coalition outside government.) But journalists tend to impose the term on non-US presidential systems, when they wouldn’t do it to the US.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > In a Presidential system like the US, there officially speaking isn’t an “opposition” True, there's a minority and majority. > journalists tend to impose the term on non-US presidential systems Didn't President Yoon call them the opposition? Or is that a liberal translation?
notahacker 2y ago
The leader of his own party reportedly called it unconstitutional and vowed to stop it, so I don't think his route to rigging a Parliamentary vote in his favour is an easy one.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > I don't think his route to rigging a Parliamentary vote in his favour is an easy one The classic move is to block the legislature from assembling while one gets around to dissolving it.
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    Does the legislature have to meet in that specific building for it to legally count as in session? Or can they meet anywhere they choose?
  - notahacker 2y ago
    Oh, I agree that via the use of force he can do what he likes, at least so long as that force is loyal to him and other forces aren't stronger. It's just harder to create a veneer of the constitutional necessity of such a move when your own highest profile political allies apparently condemn it and pledge to "stop it with the people" instead of queuing up to rubber stamp it and do "this is a small problem with criminal elements in one party which is all resolved now" briefings to confused foreigners wondering who the real government of South Korea is. Edit: reportedly the National Assembly has actually managed to hold a vote against it. Not sure how or what the constitutional quirks are, but that's probably going to make it considerably less likely the military unites behind the President...
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      This is looking stupider by the minute. You can't half ass a coup d'etat.
      - notahacker 2y ago

cyberlimerence 2y ago

From Yonhap (Korea state news): "Activities related to National Assembly, political parties banned: martial law commander." [1] "Entry, exit from National Assembly blocked after declaration of martial law." [2] [1] https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013900315 https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013900315 [2] https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013200315 https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20241203013200315

nurumaik 2y ago
Is he going to ban voting next?
- jandrese 2y ago
  I think the next step is just to jail anybody who might vote against him.
  - cogman10 2y ago
    IDK why you are grey right now because his statements reported by CNN are basically a purging of the opposition party. The entire reason he declared martial law was to eliminate the opposition.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    Given the economics of that, it seems like it'd be pretty ineffective. It'd be easier to simply postpone elections indefinitely
- sandworm101 2y ago
  That is what martial law is all about: pausing democratic norms to deal with an emergency. Voting, public gatherings, a free internet ... it is open season.
  - 2y ago

bananapub 2y ago

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20241203-south-korea-president-declares-emergency-martial-law https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20241203-south-korea-p... > The entrance to the National Assembly has been sealed, and MPs have been barred from entering the building, according to Yonhap.

voxic11 2y ago

National Assembly has been suspended by the military so they will have trouble meeting. > Following Yoon’s announcement, South Korea’s military proclaimed that parliament and other political gatherings that could cause “social confusion” would be suspended

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
Are they required to hold the vote within the parliament building itself?
- card_zero 2y ago
  They're apparently (according to BBC) inside the building now anyway and waiting for the speaker to arrive and call a vote. Also special forces are there and landed helicopters on the roof, intent unclear. Edit: vote complete, declaration of martial law is voted down. Now what?
  - excalibur 2y ago
    Impeachment? Is that a thing there?
    - card_zero 2y ago
      I'm more worried about the immediate matter of tanks on the streets. If the tanks politely go back where they came from, maybe parliament could consider tweaking the constitution to prevent blockading the assembly building next time. Edit: "The South Korean military says it will maintain martial law until it is lifted by President Yoon Suk Yeol, despite the nation's parliament voting to block its enforcement". That's a bug. "the government must lift martial law" as a result of the vote, but the government is apparently the president?
    - bicolao 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Park_Geun-hye https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Park_Geun-hye so yes