8 ms·

The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. Something like 18% to 20% added to the bill without really standing out. This

• add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
  Six months ago I was at a burrito place and saw as I was paying that there was a new 3% fee for paying with a credit card. I have not gone back there since. Asking $11 for a burrito was already iffy and by then I'd started to curtail fast food purchases. I can't even imagine paying an 18-20% fee that isn't meant to be the entirety of the tip.
  • Buttons840 2y ago
    The Visa terms of service forbid charging extra for payments using a Visa. Other credit cards have similar terms I think.
    • bdangubic 2y ago
      exactly. you’d get banned from visa and then you may as well close the shop
    • add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
      Yeah I thought there was some kind of rule like that which is why I was so surprised, I'd never seen it in food service before.
    • PlunderBunny 2y ago
      Those particular Visa terms of service eventually got shot down in New Zealand - now many POS terminals/cashiers will tell you that there’s an additional charge for credit cards [0] (Also, no tipping in New Zealand, except for a few restaurants close enough to the cruise ships that they think their customers won’t know any better). 0. https://www.cab.org.nz/article/KB00000071 https://www.cab.org.nz/article/KB00000071
  • TheDong 2y ago
    A 3% fee for a card makes perfect sense to me. That's not far off from what the merchant is losing for credit card customers, so their options are: 1. Charge the same for credit cards as cash, and make cash paying customers effectively pay more, thus applying a regressive tax to the poor (who are less likely to have credit cards) 2. Charge more for the credit card paying customers, and they can avoid this extra payment by paying with cash. 2 is obviously better, and I would rather go to stores that take 2 than ones which choose to charge everyone more, effectively to the detriment of those worse off.
    • rootusrootus 2y ago
      If you charge 3% just to credit card users, they are now subsidizing the cash customers. I am guessing you are assuming the cost of cash handling to be zero.
      • cute_boi 2y ago
        well they must take cash anyway, so cost of handling cash isn't that significant compared to fixed+variable cost of credit card.
        • rootusrootus 2y ago
          There is no federal law requiring a business to accept currency. You may be in a local jurisdiction with such a law.
        • ac29 2y ago
          Its been a long time since I worked retail, but I remember the costs of cash handling to be quite a bit more than you might assume: -Count cash drawers in and out for every employee, every shift -Count cash payments received & change returned -Prepare daily bank deposits -Take daily bank deposits to bank, get more change I couldnt say exactly what percentage all of that adds up to, but I could see it being 3% or maybe even more.
      • FireBeyond 2y ago
        Not to mention, as someone who spent a few years in that industry, in many cases those cash customers are not getting reported to the IRS, or local authorities for sales tax. So they could already be "saving" up to 10% or more on cash customers...
• acdha 2y ago
  Check your local laws about that - in some cities you can report those non-tip charges since as they are basically fraud.
  • FireBeyond 2y ago
    Doubtful. If they were on the bill that you were presented before handing over your card, you're assumed to have read and accepted the charges before payment. The only exception would be if it was misrepresented as a tip, or tax (Telcos used to do that one, phrasing their fees as taxes, to the point that "you are not allowed to call a charge a tax unless that charge in its entirety is going to a governmental entity").
    • acdha 2y ago
      If it wasn’t on the menu before you ordered, it’s unlikely to be legal.
  • Teever 2y ago
    I live in a place where owners aren't legally required to pay their employees tips and I too consider it fraud if the jar or machine describes the voluntary surcharge as a tip because a reasonable person would consider a tip to be something that is paid out to staff. It's really tiring to know that there's no legal recourse for what is obvious and normalized fraud when law enforcement receives budget increases year after year. Whatwouldyousayyoudhere.gif
• jghn 2y ago
  When this started showing up near me the places that did it trained their staff to tell you up front that it was on there. They'd make a comment that you can add extra if you wish, but no obligation to do so. Over time I've found more and more they just don't mention it at all. More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?", well ... Far more common here are ~3% "kitchen appreciation fees" that get paid directly to the kitchen staff. I'm AOK with these but some people really complain about them.
  • hattmall 2y ago
    Geeze, $100 more? So like your $400 dinner was $500 instead?
    • disattention 2y ago
      It isn't unrealistic unfortunately. It's not unusual for a few people to rack up $300, especially with drinks involved. Many states (e.g. Texas) have sales tax, so already +8.25%. Add on an 18% automatic gratuity, then tip another 15% unknowingly and you're paying $440 for your $300 worth of food...
  • FireBeyond 2y ago
    > More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?" Assuming the service charge was even 15%, for it to be $100 more than you thought it would be, your bill would be $600+ (simplifying for taxes)... I don't go out for $600 dinners that often, though I have. And that being said, I do think tipping does bring out some less sensical practices - why should the server get five times more for serving me a single bottle of wine if the wine was $100, versus $20? It was still a single bottle of wine.
    • jghn 2y ago
      To be fair, by "more than once" I meant 2-3 times, not a regular occurrence. :) The last time it happened was ~300 + 20% service charge + a tip that'd have been in the low-mid 20's. That works out to be a bit under $100. It started to bug me on the walk home, and I double checked the receipt. I don't like scrutinizing receipts but I've started to do it a bit more. > why should the server get five times more for serving me a single bottle of wine if the wine was $100, versus $20? It was still a single bottle of wine. The argument, which one can choose to agree with or not, is that the kind of place where one is buying a $100 bottle of wine has a higher degree of training, care, etc involved.
• buzzerbetrayed 2y ago
  > Then I need to decide if I want to tip something like 5% to 7% extra, which would be a good 25% tip in total Jesus. Please don’t. Tipping 25% is absurd. Don’t normalize this.
• paulpauper 2y ago
  It's out of control. More tipping, more surprise charges, higher prices for the food itself, smaller portion sizes, worse or same service. Taking into account these factors, inflation is much higher than the CPI.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• anal_reactor 2y ago
  >This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties" I always thought that economy of scale makes it cheaper to process big orders in batch, but apparently I'm wrong
  • jghn 2y ago
    autograts for large parties are done because large parties tend to be poor tippers vs normal sized parties for various reasons.
    • anal_reactor 2y ago
      I just think that the entire tipping thing is ridiculous. Imagine going to a supermarket and tipping the cashier. Or going to court and tipping the judge.
      • voisin 2y ago
        I got an oil change a few months ago and the system prompted me to tip. Needless to say I won’t go there again. And to name and shame them for my Canadian compatriots, it was the Great Canadian Oil Change chain.
• the_snooze 2y ago
  >This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. I don't even ask. If it looks like a tip and is computed like a tip, it is one. How the owners and workers hash out their payment structure is none of my business as a customer.
  • Gud 2y ago
    So why tip at all? Seems extremely arcane to me
  • MrHamburger 2y ago
    Then it should not be a tip, but part of the price?
  • JohnFen 2y ago
    If I'm tipping, my intention is that the money goes to the workers, not the establishment -- so it is my business as a customer. A tip is a gift, and I want to know that the gift is going to who I intend for it to go to.
    • the_snooze 2y ago
      I think the "gift" idea breaks down in practice when tips have become common and expected, instead of rare and meaningful. It leads to moral hazard where the establishment rationally gives up its responsibility of paying its hired staff. "Tips as gifts" does work in situations where there is no establishment. For example, musicians on the street with a tip jar.
  • eappleby 2y ago
    I spoke with a restaurant owner who explained to me the purpose of the "service fees" that may look like tips, but don't actually go to the waiters. The reason they do that is that some restaurants want to pay their non-wait staff more, without also needing to increase the pay for their wait staff. Since the "service fees" aren't included when calculating the tips, this allows restaurants to direct those extra funds exactly where they need without unnecessarily inflating the overall cost of the meal. I 100% agree that tips should be abolished and consumers should pay a clear and fixed price for goods and services, but if you accept that that is not an option, then "service fees" actually make sense. That being said, I can understand the ire that they may cause the wait staff, since many consumers may think those "service fees" are tips, and as a result, may not receive anything for their work. No great solutions here
• keernan 2y ago
  >The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. I've yet to come across it. But when I do, I will refuse to pay it and I will also refuse to leave any tip. And I will never return.
• shepherdjerred 2y ago
  The strangest thing I've seen was a mandatory ~5-10% charge that explicitly wasn't a tip and wouldn't go directly to workers, but instead went to the owners so that they could "provide sustainable wages to workers" I'm not against paying reasonable wages, but that should definitely be, you know, part of the actual menu price.
• Two4 2y ago
  I don't get why the US doesn't have basic consumer protections, like products and services must be advertised at their total cost to consumer. Why not have supermarket prices marked with sales tax included? Why allow companies to advertise one price and charge another? Why is this not a voter issue?
  • xscott 2y ago
    As far as I can tell, it's a combination of corruption, mediocre education, and plentiful amounts of sugary foods and entertainment options (bread and circuses).
  • m463 2y ago
    It seems to me that consumer protection strength changes on a 4-year cycle.
  • mhx1138 2y ago
    That’s just another word for overreaching regulation.
    • thejazzman 2y ago
      Totally. Let the scoundrels advertise whatever prices they want, it's the consumers fault for being exploited! /s
      • EricE 2y ago
        All you have to do is look at the receipt.
        • rootusrootus 2y ago
          Perhaps some people would like to know how much they are going to spend before they spend it.
  • cadamsau 2y ago
    There’s thousands of different tax regimes in the US - dozens to hundreds in every state, thanks to city taxes and the like. All businesses would need to advertise the right price everywhere. Doesn’t scale. It’d be neat to see a campaign to popularize a term like “final price” or “all-in price”. It’d encourage the creation of products that always show the right price even as taxes change. And consumers would be empowered.