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Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate Dante's words on the gates to hell; almost always translated as "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here". However, Clive J

by GJim 2y ago

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate Dante's words on the gates to hell; almost always translated as "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here". However, Clive James (yes, that Clive James), translated it much better as: "Forget your hopes. They are what brought you here." An utterly unforgettable bloke to all those who met him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_James https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_James

qsort 2y ago
It's an interesting translation but it's adding a layer that most certainly wasn't there. The original almost literally translates to the most common English translation: Lasciate = leave behind ogne = every speranza = hope voi = you ch' = who intrate = enter
- rz2k 2y ago
  Ch’ could be chi or che, who or what. It is at least an interesting insight if Dante intended the ambiguity.
  - qsort 2y ago
    Italian doesn't work that way, "voi chi" is a syntax error. The elided letter cannot be anything but an "e".
    - xandrius 2y ago
      Confirm this, chi would be invalid. That phrase was never ambiguous, it is taken to mean that anyone who enters there will never be able to leave ever again.
stared 2y ago
It would be an interesting reference to Pandora's Box: is hope a counterbalance to all troubles and misfortunes, or the greatest of them all?
jongjong 2y ago
>> Forget your hopes. They are what brought you here. Very funny. That's deep, dark humor. I see why it's called a comedy.
- toyg 2y ago
  Apart from the fact that it's a mistranslation as others said, it should be pointed out that the medieval comedy is just a generic term for play or story, and not necessarily funny. The term defines the intellectual level of the language as "midrange", as opposed to the more complex tragedy or the simple elegy; and it roughly indicates a positive ending, again as opposed to tragedy. We have letters in which Dante himself explains this. Humour should not be expected, although there is some satire to be found in the Inferno (which is only one third of the Comedy).
vrighter 2y ago
The clive james one is a mistranslation, no matter how much nicer it sounds. In italian, the usual translation is correct.
SeanLuke 2y ago
Clive James is wrong. The Italian is very straightforward, and the traditional translation is right.
dfxm12 2y ago
It should be noted that Clive James was translating the text into quatrain poetry (with an ABAB rhyming scheme). He was not going for a literal translation. You can search for the line here in context: https://www.clivejames.com/hell---cantos-1-3.html https://www.clivejames.com/hell---cantos-1-3.html

by GJim 2y ago

qsort 2y ago

It's an interesting translation but it's adding a layer that most certainly wasn't there. The original almost literally translates to the most common English translation: Lasciate = leave behind ogne = every speranza = hope voi = you ch' = who intrate = enter

rz2k 2y ago
Ch’ could be chi or che, who or what. It is at least an interesting insight if Dante intended the ambiguity.
- qsort 2y ago
  Italian doesn't work that way, "voi chi" is a syntax error. The elided letter cannot be anything but an "e".
  - xandrius 2y ago
    Confirm this, chi would be invalid. That phrase was never ambiguous, it is taken to mean that anyone who enters there will never be able to leave ever again.

stared 2y ago

It would be an interesting reference to Pandora's Box: is hope a counterbalance to all troubles and misfortunes, or the greatest of them all?

jongjong 2y ago

>> Forget your hopes. They are what brought you here. Very funny. That's deep, dark humor. I see why it's called a comedy.

toyg 2y ago
Apart from the fact that it's a mistranslation as others said, it should be pointed out that the medieval comedy is just a generic term for play or story, and not necessarily funny. The term defines the intellectual level of the language as "midrange", as opposed to the more complex tragedy or the simple elegy; and it roughly indicates a positive ending, again as opposed to tragedy. We have letters in which Dante himself explains this. Humour should not be expected, although there is some satire to be found in the Inferno (which is only one third of the Comedy).

vrighter 2y ago

The clive james one is a mistranslation, no matter how much nicer it sounds. In italian, the usual translation is correct.

SeanLuke 2y ago

Clive James is wrong. The Italian is very straightforward, and the traditional translation is right.

dfxm12 2y ago

It should be noted that Clive James was translating the text into quatrain poetry (with an ABAB rhyming scheme). He was not going for a literal translation. You can search for the line here in context: https://www.clivejames.com/hell---cantos-1-3.html https://www.clivejames.com/hell---cantos-1-3.html