4 ms·

That's my cue! I once had a Spanish teacher, who also had problems remembering what that kind of time specification stands for and I came up with maybe a trick

That's my cue! I once had a Spanish teacher, who also had problems remembering what that kind of time specification stands for and I came up with maybe a trick to remember. We do the same thing in German, so I guess it translates: Lets say you have 11:00. That's easy. But what about 11:15? We would say "quarter 12", so I guess the English version is "quarter of 12". How to memorize, that this is 11:15? Well, you can imagine a round clock and the minute pointer has moved _quarter of its way to 12_. So you only have a quarter of that hour "already done". 10:30? We say "half 11". So I guess English is "half of 11", meaning that the minute pointer has moved half the way to 11. Maybe this will help. (Actually I personally usually don't use those ways of specifying the time, neither in English nor in German. I just say the 24h format as it is written: "11:15" is "eleven fifteen", 13:35 is "thirteen thirtee five" not 1pm something.)

card_zero 2y ago
Whatever "quarter of 12" means in English, whether it's 11:45 (quarter to 12) or 12:15 (quarter past 12), it definitely isn't 11:15. We do fraction of an hour forward or backward relative to the hour mentioned, not fraction of an hour elapsed in approach to hour mentioned. I recently encountered a German asking for the English phrase equivalent to bis unter, looking for a phrase like "up to below". There isn't one in common use. We just don't count things in equivalent ways.
- monkpit 2y ago
  Isn’t _bis unter_ akin to “just under”, or “right up to”? I feel like either of those could work depending on the context and are common in English.
  - fhars 2y ago
    It is "up to but not including".
Melatonic 2y ago
This is not great advice - the only way I have heard it in English would be "quarter past 11" to mean 11:15. Most people would just say "eleven fifteen".
- zelphirkalt 2y ago
  If no one says it, did the post above mine just make things up and I am trying to explain their invented things?
  - daveguy 2y ago
    You were just wrong. They explicitly gave the understood options as 15 before or 15 after. These are the options everyone uses in English -- not 45 before or a quarter of the hour before. In English no one says quarter of 12 to mean 11:15. You just explained it completely different from the ways it is interpreted in English. I understand the logic and how it might come about. Maybe it's very common in German, but it is not used that way in English. If you referred to 11:15 in that way to a native English speaker you would be misinterpreted.
tags2k 2y ago
This definitely doesn't translate - if you say "half 11" to a British person you are getting them at 11:30, not 10:30.
jcranmer 2y ago
> Lets say you have 11:00. That's easy. But what about 11:15? We would say "quarter 12", so I guess the English version is "quarter of 12". The English terms would be: 11:15 -> quarter after 11, quarter past 11 (both pretty rare, tbh) 11:30 -> half past 11 (this is the only form that is moderately common) 11:45 -> quarter of 12, quarter before 12 (also pretty rare)
- brigandish 2y ago
  Quarter to and quarter past are not rare in Britain, so 11:15 -> quarter past 11 11:45 -> quarter to 12 are very normal to me. In fact any number above 5 to or past are normal. Even smaller numbers come up, where, of course, 1 to 1 and 2 to 2 are particular favourites.
- pessimizer 2y ago
  And I'm pretty sure the Spanish matches (except in reverse, like Spanish usually is relative to English): 11:15 -> once y cuarto 11:30 -> once y media 11:45 -> doce menos cuarto edit: and about the subject of the thread, "por sí" or "por sí mismo." "per" afaik is a preposition like "por" that means to pair or match things: so it can mean by, through, around, with, for, and even times("×") i.e. doesn't mean anything in English. "si" is the 3rd person reflexive pronoun (when placed after the verb), and is probably similar to "se." ("mismo" is a redundant clarification is Spanish, probably because "si" and "sí" are homonyms.)
  - asveikau 2y ago
    Se and si (as used here) are the same word in different cases. I would draw comparisons to latin se and sibi respectively. I'd also draw parallels between sui, suus, secum and suyo, su, consigo.
- chrisweekly 2y ago
  100% agreed. Also, 11:45 -> quarter TO 12 (rare)
  - dhosek 2y ago

card_zero 2y ago

Whatever "quarter of 12" means in English, whether it's 11:45 (quarter to 12) or 12:15 (quarter past 12), it definitely isn't 11:15. We do fraction of an hour forward or backward relative to the hour mentioned, not fraction of an hour elapsed in approach to hour mentioned. I recently encountered a German asking for the English phrase equivalent to bis unter, looking for a phrase like "up to below". There isn't one in common use. We just don't count things in equivalent ways.

monkpit 2y ago
Isn’t _bis unter_ akin to “just under”, or “right up to”? I feel like either of those could work depending on the context and are common in English.
- fhars 2y ago
  It is "up to but not including".

Melatonic 2y ago

This is not great advice - the only way I have heard it in English would be "quarter past 11" to mean 11:15. Most people would just say "eleven fifteen".

zelphirkalt 2y ago
If no one says it, did the post above mine just make things up and I am trying to explain their invented things?
- daveguy 2y ago
  You were just wrong. They explicitly gave the understood options as 15 before or 15 after. These are the options everyone uses in English -- not 45 before or a quarter of the hour before. In English no one says quarter of 12 to mean 11:15. You just explained it completely different from the ways it is interpreted in English. I understand the logic and how it might come about. Maybe it's very common in German, but it is not used that way in English. If you referred to 11:15 in that way to a native English speaker you would be misinterpreted.

tags2k 2y ago

This definitely doesn't translate - if you say "half 11" to a British person you are getting them at 11:30, not 10:30.

jcranmer 2y ago

> Lets say you have 11:00. That's easy. But what about 11:15? We would say "quarter 12", so I guess the English version is "quarter of 12". The English terms would be: 11:15 -> quarter after 11, quarter past 11 (both pretty rare, tbh) 11:30 -> half past 11 (this is the only form that is moderately common) 11:45 -> quarter of 12, quarter before 12 (also pretty rare)

brigandish 2y ago
Quarter to and quarter past are not rare in Britain, so 11:15 -> quarter past 11 11:45 -> quarter to 12 are very normal to me. In fact any number above 5 to or past are normal. Even smaller numbers come up, where, of course, 1 to 1 and 2 to 2 are particular favourites.
pessimizer 2y ago
And I'm pretty sure the Spanish matches (except in reverse, like Spanish usually is relative to English): 11:15 -> once y cuarto 11:30 -> once y media 11:45 -> doce menos cuarto edit: and about the subject of the thread, "por sí" or "por sí mismo." "per" afaik is a preposition like "por" that means to pair or match things: so it can mean by, through, around, with, for, and even times("×") i.e. doesn't mean anything in English. "si" is the 3rd person reflexive pronoun (when placed after the verb), and is probably similar to "se." ("mismo" is a redundant clarification is Spanish, probably because "si" and "sí" are homonyms.)
- asveikau 2y ago
  Se and si (as used here) are the same word in different cases. I would draw comparisons to latin se and sibi respectively. I'd also draw parallels between sui, suus, secum and suyo, su, consigo.
chrisweekly 2y ago
100% agreed. Also, 11:45 -> quarter TO 12 (rare)
- dhosek 2y ago