8 ms·

That is a lot of money, which bank/payment processor is processing that much? Does it not send alarm bells? Do the bank get fined?

SnorkelTan 2y ago
Could also have been inserting commercials from video ad companies? Wonder if anyone pays for pirate streams directly
- kaikai 2y ago
  I know someone who paid for a pirate streaming service. They said it had anything and everything, and was only $15/month. That’s less than I’m paying for HBO now, and I only get access to the hbo catalog.
  - StanislavPetrov 2y ago
    I've got MAX, Fubo, Amazon and the biggest cable package but I still pirate ~80% of what I watch just because it is easier, more convenient, no ads or commercials and everything is available. A lot of movies, especially older movies, aren't available as part of the package on any streaming service. They want me to pay an additional fee to "buy" the movie. Except I won't own the movie, I will have a temporary license to watch the movie on their streaming service, which is still laden with ads and other nonsense. No thanks.
OkayBuddy44 2y ago
The one I use (one of the biggest) only takes crypto, either directly or by paying with your card through Moonpay.
- itake 2y ago
  JW, why pay for these services? Private trackers are still free and have all the content..
  - dxbednarczyk 2y ago
    Private trackers (at least, the "good ones") take time and effort to get into and stay in... most people just want convenience.
    - itake 2y ago
      paying per mo is certainly more convenient I guess. but once you are in, there isn't a cost to stay in. Some trackers might boot you if you don't log in once every 3-6 mo.
    - hackerknew 2y ago
      I am curious. If you are willing to pay for the convenience, why not just pay the original service providers? Is it much less expensive?
      - Numerlor 2y ago
        Over here it's a fair bit less expensive because it just has everything. On normal streaming platforms dubbed shows aren't always there and because the market is small a lot of things are just not available anywhere legally
      - christophilus 2y ago
        Not the OP, but when you go down the illegal route, it is much easier to find whatever you want to watch, watch it on any device with no limitations, etc. The fragmentation and limitations of the usual big services is a nuisance.
      - Kirby64 2y ago
        Less expensive yes, but more importantly much more convenient. When 'all' the shows exist on a combination of Netflix, Hulu, Prime Video, Paramount, Disney+, and Max... you can easily get to $100/mo+ if you were to subscribe to all of them. Then, if you want to watch something from an international viewership, it might not even be available in your region. In addition, you now have to figure out which service offers what program... which for certain not-current shows can be maddening (some seasons on some services, some on others, some not even available). As GabeN has stated: piracy is a service problem, not a pricing problem.
pxmpxm 2y ago
> Moreover, the police confiscated cryptocurrencies valued at over €1.65 million ($1.74M) and another €40,000 in cash ($42,000). That eur250mio / mo number is almost certainly bullshit just going off the above alone. Not to mention that you can't exactly hide 3 yards annual revenue ... and anyone within a mile of a corporate treasury role will tell you that you can't cash-manage that revenue on 40k eur.
- handfuloflight 2y ago
  It's definitely off. At $3 billion/yr you can sit at the table and negotiate content licensing rights and go legit.
  - EA-3167 2y ago
    It sounds completely reason when you look at the figures: > "These broadcasts were resold to 22 million subscribed members via multiple distribution channels and an extensive seller network. Around €10 a sub per month to get EVERYTHING that's broadcast or streamed? That's an excellent deal for the subscriber. And for the pirates their overhead is going to be so much lower than any streaming service precisely because they DON'T have to pay and negotiate for rights. If they "went legit" then they'd have to charge a hell of a lot more than around ten Euros a month, they'd cease to be competative, and their profit margin would collapse.
    - handfuloflight 2y ago
      It's just there are layers of implausibility, specifically what the OP is referring to: you are not going to be able to handle that kind of volume for illegal services through the payment card networks (maybe you can if you collude with a payment service provider or own one yourself). And I don't know which cryptocurrency has achieved subscription revenue adoption for one merchant to the tune of $3 billion a year, as cryptocurrencies are push payments by default. Do you think 22 million people are topping up 10 euros of cryptocurrencies per month to pay for this? That itself would be news. I'm not saying it's impossible just implausible. Interested to see more details on this.
dboreham 2y ago
I read the article, and then the source press release from the postal police. My Italian is not good, but I suspect this is a case of the "journalists" writing the article using Google translate, with their brains in neutral. My reading of the relevant sentence is that it is the "illegal streaming industry" that "generates EUR 3B annually" and causes 10B damage to the media rights holders (they say, presumably). This is where the "250M/mo" comes from -- a figure that never appears in the actual press release. They also say they seized 1.6M in crypto and 40K in cash. So...TFA is BS. https://www.commissariatodips.it/notizie/articolo/comunicato-stampa-operazione-taken-down/index.html https://www.commissariatodips.it/notizie/articolo/comunicato...
- PaywallBuster 2y ago
  > Sono stati sequestrati oltre 2500 canali illegali e server che gestivano la maggior parte dei segnali illeciti in Europa, con i quali i presunti frodatori hanno realizzato un giro illegale di affari di oltre 250 milioni di euro mensili. Google translate offering > Over 2,500 illegal channels and servers were seized that managed the majority of the illicit signals in Europe, with which the alleged fraudsters achieved an illegal turnover of over 250 million euros per month
  - BLKNSLVR 2y ago
    The attempt to "seize an illegal channel" invokes various of the lyrics from "How do you solve a problem like Maria?" How do you catch a cloud and pin it down? How do you keep a wave upon the sand? How do you hold a moonbeam in your hand?
    - alphan0n 2y ago
      Can’t stop the signal, Mal.
    - lobsterthief 2y ago
      How do you impound all the downloaded cars?
qingcharles 2y ago
I used to run a TV show torrent tracker and we processed well over $1m/year through PayPal. We had our own account exec. They didn't give a fuck for some reason. They even had their own login to the site.
- aspenmayer 2y ago
  Were these payments for access or donations?
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    They were styled as "donations" towards the running costs. In exchange people got to boost their upload/download ratio in their favor, or get a fancy star next to their name, etc. While the bulletproof hosting we had wasn't cheap, we were still making an enormous profit.
    - aegypti 2y ago
      Any articles or inside writing from the industry you know of? I realize it’s illegal, but it’s still fascinating!
- illegalsmile 2y ago
  Why did you stop?

SnorkelTan 2y ago

Could also have been inserting commercials from video ad companies? Wonder if anyone pays for pirate streams directly

kaikai 2y ago
I know someone who paid for a pirate streaming service. They said it had anything and everything, and was only $15/month. That’s less than I’m paying for HBO now, and I only get access to the hbo catalog.
- StanislavPetrov 2y ago
  I've got MAX, Fubo, Amazon and the biggest cable package but I still pirate ~80% of what I watch just because it is easier, more convenient, no ads or commercials and everything is available. A lot of movies, especially older movies, aren't available as part of the package on any streaming service. They want me to pay an additional fee to "buy" the movie. Except I won't own the movie, I will have a temporary license to watch the movie on their streaming service, which is still laden with ads and other nonsense. No thanks.

OkayBuddy44 2y ago

The one I use (one of the biggest) only takes crypto, either directly or by paying with your card through Moonpay.

itake 2y ago
JW, why pay for these services? Private trackers are still free and have all the content..
- dxbednarczyk 2y ago
  Private trackers (at least, the "good ones") take time and effort to get into and stay in... most people just want convenience.
  - itake 2y ago
    paying per mo is certainly more convenient I guess. but once you are in, there isn't a cost to stay in. Some trackers might boot you if you don't log in once every 3-6 mo.
  - hackerknew 2y ago
    I am curious. If you are willing to pay for the convenience, why not just pay the original service providers? Is it much less expensive?
    - Numerlor 2y ago
      Over here it's a fair bit less expensive because it just has everything. On normal streaming platforms dubbed shows aren't always there and because the market is small a lot of things are just not available anywhere legally
    - christophilus 2y ago
      Not the OP, but when you go down the illegal route, it is much easier to find whatever you want to watch, watch it on any device with no limitations, etc. The fragmentation and limitations of the usual big services is a nuisance.
    - Kirby64 2y ago
      Less expensive yes, but more importantly much more convenient. When 'all' the shows exist on a combination of Netflix, Hulu, Prime Video, Paramount, Disney+, and Max... you can easily get to $100/mo+ if you were to subscribe to all of them. Then, if you want to watch something from an international viewership, it might not even be available in your region. In addition, you now have to figure out which service offers what program... which for certain not-current shows can be maddening (some seasons on some services, some on others, some not even available). As GabeN has stated: piracy is a service problem, not a pricing problem.

pxmpxm 2y ago

> Moreover, the police confiscated cryptocurrencies valued at over €1.65 million ($1.74M) and another €40,000 in cash ($42,000). That eur250mio / mo number is almost certainly bullshit just going off the above alone. Not to mention that you can't exactly hide 3 yards annual revenue ... and anyone within a mile of a corporate treasury role will tell you that you can't cash-manage that revenue on 40k eur.

handfuloflight 2y ago
It's definitely off. At $3 billion/yr you can sit at the table and negotiate content licensing rights and go legit.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  It sounds completely reason when you look at the figures: > "These broadcasts were resold to 22 million subscribed members via multiple distribution channels and an extensive seller network. Around €10 a sub per month to get EVERYTHING that's broadcast or streamed? That's an excellent deal for the subscriber. And for the pirates their overhead is going to be so much lower than any streaming service precisely because they DON'T have to pay and negotiate for rights. If they "went legit" then they'd have to charge a hell of a lot more than around ten Euros a month, they'd cease to be competative, and their profit margin would collapse.
  - handfuloflight 2y ago
    It's just there are layers of implausibility, specifically what the OP is referring to: you are not going to be able to handle that kind of volume for illegal services through the payment card networks (maybe you can if you collude with a payment service provider or own one yourself). And I don't know which cryptocurrency has achieved subscription revenue adoption for one merchant to the tune of $3 billion a year, as cryptocurrencies are push payments by default. Do you think 22 million people are topping up 10 euros of cryptocurrencies per month to pay for this? That itself would be news. I'm not saying it's impossible just implausible. Interested to see more details on this.

dboreham 2y ago

I read the article, and then the source press release from the postal police. My Italian is not good, but I suspect this is a case of the "journalists" writing the article using Google translate, with their brains in neutral. My reading of the relevant sentence is that it is the "illegal streaming industry" that "generates EUR 3B annually" and causes 10B damage to the media rights holders (they say, presumably). This is where the "250M/mo" comes from -- a figure that never appears in the actual press release. They also say they seized 1.6M in crypto and 40K in cash. So...TFA is BS. https://www.commissariatodips.it/notizie/articolo/comunicato-stampa-operazione-taken-down/index.html https://www.commissariatodips.it/notizie/articolo/comunicato...

PaywallBuster 2y ago
> Sono stati sequestrati oltre 2500 canali illegali e server che gestivano la maggior parte dei segnali illeciti in Europa, con i quali i presunti frodatori hanno realizzato un giro illegale di affari di oltre 250 milioni di euro mensili. Google translate offering > Over 2,500 illegal channels and servers were seized that managed the majority of the illicit signals in Europe, with which the alleged fraudsters achieved an illegal turnover of over 250 million euros per month
- BLKNSLVR 2y ago
  The attempt to "seize an illegal channel" invokes various of the lyrics from "How do you solve a problem like Maria?" How do you catch a cloud and pin it down? How do you keep a wave upon the sand? How do you hold a moonbeam in your hand?
  - alphan0n 2y ago
    Can’t stop the signal, Mal.
  - lobsterthief 2y ago
    How do you impound all the downloaded cars?

qingcharles 2y ago

I used to run a TV show torrent tracker and we processed well over $1m/year through PayPal. We had our own account exec. They didn't give a fuck for some reason. They even had their own login to the site.

aspenmayer 2y ago
Were these payments for access or donations?
- qingcharles 2y ago
  They were styled as "donations" towards the running costs. In exchange people got to boost their upload/download ratio in their favor, or get a fancy star next to their name, etc. While the bulletproof hosting we had wasn't cheap, we were still making an enormous profit.
  - aegypti 2y ago
    Any articles or inside writing from the industry you know of? I realize it’s illegal, but it’s still fascinating!
illegalsmile 2y ago
Why did you stop?