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I agree. But it's a tough problem, isn't it? I don't just mean filtering out the spam; that's a hard problem on its own. But the good-click metrics... if servi

I agree. But it's a tough problem, isn't it? I don't just mean filtering out the spam; that's a hard problem on its own. But the good-click metrics... if serving up reddit and quora links at #1 makes more people satisfied with the first result, defining satisfied as 'reads the #1 page and doesn't go back for more', then... What's wrong with that metric? That isn't a rhetorical question. It's tempting to claim the users are wrong to prefer it, but not very nice. Why do they do so?

refulgentis 2y ago
Users aren't wrong (tangentially, I strongly believe they don't like it) Bravely flattening a root cause analysis to one agreeable-sounding villain, I'd do Goodhart's Law. Click-through rate not being a great proxy for user satisfaction. i.e. I always clicked reddit first, I used to append reddit to my searches. But I get a very uneasy feeling now that everything has reddit 3 times in top ten. Impossible. It's a big world. It'd be like if Encyclopedia Britannica started just including the snippet-sized version of Wikipedia articles. Not what I'm looking for from that product.
throwawayffffas 2y ago
> if serving up reddit and quora links at #1 makes more people satisfied with the first result. It does not, what google is optimizing for is ad click-through not organic results click-through. The whole model is you will search for X see a couple of ads and a sea of bad results and opt to click on the ad. It's the same reason that if you search for "graphics card" on amazon and sort by price you will get 20 pages of "Graphics card Holders" and "Graphics Card Elbows". They want you to not actually use the search just click on their ad.
- baranul 2y ago
  This is a good explanation of the method behind the madness. The manipulated results are for steering people to what they want to serve them. Clicking on their ads or corporate preferences. The problem appears to be it's hard for them to realize that people are getting fed up with the antics and are seeing through the manipulations. It's like an abuser or bully, that thinks they will keep getting away with the poor treatment of others, who they think are "below" them. At some point, enough people can take a stand, and not put up with the lack of transparency and black-box manipulations. They are going to keep demanding change or find alternatives.
jumping_frog 2y ago
You have it backwards. People started adding reddit because the default google was serving up has gotten so bad. If the default was good, I wouldn't need to add reddit or quora.

refulgentis 2y ago

Users aren't wrong (tangentially, I strongly believe they don't like it) Bravely flattening a root cause analysis to one agreeable-sounding villain, I'd do Goodhart's Law. Click-through rate not being a great proxy for user satisfaction. i.e. I always clicked reddit first, I used to append reddit to my searches. But I get a very uneasy feeling now that everything has reddit 3 times in top ten. Impossible. It's a big world. It'd be like if Encyclopedia Britannica started just including the snippet-sized version of Wikipedia articles. Not what I'm looking for from that product.

throwawayffffas 2y ago

> if serving up reddit and quora links at #1 makes more people satisfied with the first result. It does not, what google is optimizing for is ad click-through not organic results click-through. The whole model is you will search for X see a couple of ads and a sea of bad results and opt to click on the ad. It's the same reason that if you search for "graphics card" on amazon and sort by price you will get 20 pages of "Graphics card Holders" and "Graphics Card Elbows". They want you to not actually use the search just click on their ad.

baranul 2y ago
This is a good explanation of the method behind the madness. The manipulated results are for steering people to what they want to serve them. Clicking on their ads or corporate preferences. The problem appears to be it's hard for them to realize that people are getting fed up with the antics and are seeing through the manipulations. It's like an abuser or bully, that thinks they will keep getting away with the poor treatment of others, who they think are "below" them. At some point, enough people can take a stand, and not put up with the lack of transparency and black-box manipulations. They are going to keep demanding change or find alternatives.

jumping_frog 2y ago

You have it backwards. People started adding reddit because the default google was serving up has gotten so bad. If the default was good, I wouldn't need to add reddit or quora.