8 ms·
There is nothing to hate here. I have given numerous PIP's as a manager and only actually fired once. The purpose of a PIP is to improve, not to fire a person.
by kareiva 2y ago
There is nothing to hate here. I have given numerous PIP's as a manager and only actually fired once. The purpose of a PIP is to improve, not to fire a person.
- JKCalhoun 2y agoNot in management so I can't argue with you on that. But it seems like at the time the PIP is summoned, the person has somehow made to fireable-grounds.
- avereveard 2y agoThere might be a selection bias at hand only people that fail a pip and are fired are eventually free from nda.
- KaoruAoiShiho 2y agoI think the PIP is hated because it ruins the illusion of camaraderie, like an ultimatum in marriage. But really, unlike a marriage you shouldn't have that illusion in the first place, you were always a replaceable cog whose only value is what service you can do for your boss. If you always had that perspective then the PIP can be seen as a helpful encouragement to improve rather than a precursor to an actual firing.
- chrisdhoover 2y agoOne should realize life is temporary. You probably will leave very little legacy. You should aspire to have a large attendance at a remembrance. My father’s funeral filled the church. An in-law’s had less than 10 people. Best you can do is have and rear good children. If hard work helps that, it will be a net benefit.
- Cpoll 2y agoA manager should be communicating expectations regularly. PIP conventionally means "we're firing you in a few months," so you're just threatening to fire people euphemistically.
- deskr 2y agoHow on earth can you be a good manager and not realize that saying "your performance is shit, we're going to fire you unless you take this course and we deem you've passed" is totally and utterly soul destroying to a person?
- stavros 2y agoA PIP should be the last chance to improve. You should have had many chances before that, with lots of clear feedback. Of course it's soul-destroying, but laying them off is worse.
- sunshowers 2y agoPeople have things going on in their lives! What if it's not the employee's performance but the manager's that's concerning — it's the manager who should get the PIP? What if it's the CEO's fault for creating an environment where many employees are demotivated — what if the CEO should be the one getting the PIP? Tech still, to this day, has a problem retaining women and URMs. Conceptions of individual performance are often shaped by unintentional (or intentional) sexism and racism. Speaking personally, at my last role at FB there was a quite marked change in how I was treated after I transitioned to ~female. The PIP process does not interrogate all this nearly as much as it should. I'm quite convinced it's absolutely the wrong way to go about things — too much falls on the IC and not enough on management.
- stavros 2y agoI feel like this conversation is "bad PIPs are bad!" "but good PIPs are good" "no, bad!". Sometimes, you can tell someone "listen, nothing else worked, and we tried for a while, so this is the last resort". Do you think it's better to fire people outright than to give them one last chance?
- sunshowers 2y agoI think most of the time, so-called underperformance is caused by the environment, not the individual. If a company cares about bringing the best out of individuals it would fix the environment. (There are certainly some individuals that end up being a negative to the team, disrupting more than contributing, and a small minority of PIPs are justified in that sense. But most PIPs I've seen are handed out to hardworking individuals who are very clearly doing their best and are enhancing the team, just because they maybe aren't as good as playing politics, or are game theoretic doves in an environment full of hawks.)
- chenmike 2y agoI’ve never heard anyone brag about giving working PIPs. PIPs are pretty demoralizing even if they “work”. Maybe you should consider giving people feedback in non-PIP form!
- therealdrag0 2y agoSometimes people are in lala land and don’t realize the stakes until the heat gets turned up so far.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoI've never been put under a PIP, but if I were, I'd be looking for a way out. The company has told me I suck and, even if I recovered, I'd be concerned that just having had it there would hurt any future progression I had in the company.
- fasa99 2y agoMy wife went through that at one of the FANG companies. Many years ago. At least in her case, 100% true. Many years later the PIP (which she survived) would come up, blocking her from promotions. People who witnessed the PIP still remained and still had thoughts about it, many years later. I will also mention talk of managers getting PIPped, she reports that indeed her manager got PIPed by the director above.
- dangus 2y agoThe company you worked for that allowed you to operate this way is in the minority. For 99% of companies the PIP is a documentation and CYA step to ensure that the employee goes away quietly, without things like filing for unemployment or suing the company. For most companies the purpose of a PIP is to fire a person.
- therealdrag0 2y agoWhat evidence do you have for this statistic?
- dangus 2y agoNone, sorry to disappoint your request for “source????.” It’s just common sense, finding someone who exits a PIP successfully is like finding a needle in a haystack.
- therealdrag0 2y agoThere’s multiple people in the comments of this post alone who have self exited a pip. And I know at least one in person myself. What’s common sense is that Common sense doesn’t mean much, people often draw false conclusions from narrow sample sizes among other fallacious beliefs and reasonings. Asking for a source should always be acceptable by anyone who has an allegiance to truth. Let’s be honest with each other.
- Plasmoid 2y agoThere is going to be a fair amount of selection bias in pip announcing they beat a pip. Getting fired isn't fun and so people won't brag about it. There are also other comments in this thread about people being pip'ed dishonestly. So people's experience will fall into a few categories: * People who are not doing well * People where the expectations of the job are (honestly) different between employee and employer. * Trying to create cause to fire an employee / avoid layoff news.
- kingbiz 2y agoDoes management ever get PIP'd? In my experience its lowly ICs that take the brunt of PIP culture.