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But SPAs don't need to, they chose to. The history API is fine and can be used to have SPAs and their navigators work with the browser and user, instead of agai

But SPAs don't need to, they chose to. The history API is fine and can be used to have SPAs and their navigators work with the browser and user, instead of against it. But a lot of developers broke it because they ignored bookmarkability and navigation and the like because they didn't care. A good SPA works just like a regular website and other than it being fast and responsive, you shouldn't even notice it is one. But alas.

aredox 2y ago
Why did we let them be able to do so?
- pdimitar 2y ago
  Who is "we" and how could "we" stop them exactly?
  - account42 2y ago
    "We" is Browser makers and users. We stop them by taking back control of what runs on our computer.
- afavour 2y ago
  Because when implemented properly it is a better user experience.
- ikari_pl 2y ago
  if done properly, this allows the url to represent where you are in the app, and makes back/forward work - like in typical web pages, just without a reload. Most often though, I see it done inconsistently, and it's a painful mess
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  Because some sites need to change those things. So they can't just deny it for everybody.
ffsm8 2y ago
This didn't come through pwas. We've had ajax for ages before they became a thing and mpa also had opaque state for modals/detail views etc. Blaming SPAs for such things is like blaming the ocean for a hurricane... Sure, you'd have less hurricanes without the ocean, but it's ultimately not the reason for them
axegon_ 2y ago
> fast and responsive I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I've never seen a fast or responsive SPA, not to mention the absurd amounts of resources they require. A tab taking up 400 mb of memory is pure insanity and this is the de facto standard these days. Look at HN: this is the definition of fast and responsive. It will work equally well on my dual-xeon workstation and a first gen raspberry pi zero. This is fast and responsive. Most people who use a computer to navigate the internet would not care if the browser blinks when you navigate a page. Mobile users don't really use the web beyond social media and chats so it makes no difference to them either. SPAs solved a problem no one had by creating 1000 other problems. Just take us back to server side html rendering and I guarantee most ordinary people as well as most developers will love it.
- danpad 2y ago
  > I've never seen a fast or responsive SPA Here, let me blow your mind. It's in Czech, but you can click the orange buttons to try the activites: https://gramazing.com/features https://gramazing.com/features . Made with NextJS (client side only), Django, hosted in Germany on a cheap VPS.
  - justsomehnguy 2y ago
    And you could do all that with a static generated site. Why it needs to be an SPA?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - danpad 2y ago
      Yes, I could do it with server rendered site, it wouldn't be as fast though. Also SPAs were my bread and butter with my previous employer, and I have gotten to a point where I am much more comfy with NextJS+Django than SSR Django, Django+homebrew JS or something like HTMX (as much as I wanted to like that one). Statically generated site is something completely different and I couldn't make Gramazing like that.
- 2y ago
safety1st 2y ago
It's because when you build a SPA you give up a bunch of stuff that comes with the traditional web page model, and it's stuff that most teams overlook until it's too late. They are usually fixated on a certain set of performance issues that drove them to do an SPA in the first place, their energy goes into that, and then they kind of look around at all the other stuff and go, oh, we don't have time for those things. This is why I typically fight SPAs every step of the way with our clients, if any other architecture will work I see if there is a good case to be made for it, because I know that SPAs are usually going to end up shipping broken in some way.
- ervine 2y ago
  What kind of stuff do you give up with an SPA?
  - nurettin 2y ago
    You give up server redirects and cookie auth. (well you don't lose cookie auth, but you need extra steps for it to prevent CSRF)
    - stackghost 2y ago
      You can just have the server return a json object instructing the frontend to navigate, accomplishing server redirects.
      - ftmch 2y ago
        Javascript can do browser redirects, but those are not actual 301 HTTP redirects.
        stackghost 2y ago
        Yes, what I'm saying is that you can have the backend return e.g. "{ "response": 301, "redirectUrl": "https://example.com https://example.com" }", and then have the frontend handle that properly, and you get the functional equivalent. I'm aware that it is different under the hood.

aredox 2y ago

Why did we let them be able to do so?

pdimitar 2y ago
Who is "we" and how could "we" stop them exactly?
- account42 2y ago
  "We" is Browser makers and users. We stop them by taking back control of what runs on our computer.
afavour 2y ago
Because when implemented properly it is a better user experience.
ikari_pl 2y ago
if done properly, this allows the url to represent where you are in the app, and makes back/forward work - like in typical web pages, just without a reload. Most often though, I see it done inconsistently, and it's a painful mess
marcosdumay 2y ago
Because some sites need to change those things. So they can't just deny it for everybody.

ffsm8 2y ago

This didn't come through pwas. We've had ajax for ages before they became a thing and mpa also had opaque state for modals/detail views etc. Blaming SPAs for such things is like blaming the ocean for a hurricane... Sure, you'd have less hurricanes without the ocean, but it's ultimately not the reason for them

axegon_ 2y ago

> fast and responsive I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I've never seen a fast or responsive SPA, not to mention the absurd amounts of resources they require. A tab taking up 400 mb of memory is pure insanity and this is the de facto standard these days. Look at HN: this is the definition of fast and responsive. It will work equally well on my dual-xeon workstation and a first gen raspberry pi zero. This is fast and responsive. Most people who use a computer to navigate the internet would not care if the browser blinks when you navigate a page. Mobile users don't really use the web beyond social media and chats so it makes no difference to them either. SPAs solved a problem no one had by creating 1000 other problems. Just take us back to server side html rendering and I guarantee most ordinary people as well as most developers will love it.

danpad 2y ago
> I've never seen a fast or responsive SPA Here, let me blow your mind. It's in Czech, but you can click the orange buttons to try the activites: https://gramazing.com/features https://gramazing.com/features . Made with NextJS (client side only), Django, hosted in Germany on a cheap VPS.
- justsomehnguy 2y ago
  And you could do all that with a static generated site. Why it needs to be an SPA?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - danpad 2y ago
    Yes, I could do it with server rendered site, it wouldn't be as fast though. Also SPAs were my bread and butter with my previous employer, and I have gotten to a point where I am much more comfy with NextJS+Django than SSR Django, Django+homebrew JS or something like HTMX (as much as I wanted to like that one). Statically generated site is something completely different and I couldn't make Gramazing like that.
2y ago

safety1st 2y ago

It's because when you build a SPA you give up a bunch of stuff that comes with the traditional web page model, and it's stuff that most teams overlook until it's too late. They are usually fixated on a certain set of performance issues that drove them to do an SPA in the first place, their energy goes into that, and then they kind of look around at all the other stuff and go, oh, we don't have time for those things. This is why I typically fight SPAs every step of the way with our clients, if any other architecture will work I see if there is a good case to be made for it, because I know that SPAs are usually going to end up shipping broken in some way.

ervine 2y ago
What kind of stuff do you give up with an SPA?
- nurettin 2y ago
  You give up server redirects and cookie auth. (well you don't lose cookie auth, but you need extra steps for it to prevent CSRF)
  - stackghost 2y ago
    You can just have the server return a json object instructing the frontend to navigate, accomplishing server redirects.
    - ftmch 2y ago
      Javascript can do browser redirects, but those are not actual 301 HTTP redirects.
      - stackghost 2y ago
        Yes, what I'm saying is that you can have the backend return e.g. "{ "response": 301, "redirectUrl": "https://example.com https://example.com" }", and then have the frontend handle that properly, and you get the functional equivalent. I'm aware that it is different under the hood.