3 ms·

Chinese companies poach staff from ASML and Zeiss with three times higher pay

33 points by qwertox 2y ago

ggm 2y ago
Isn't this an entirely rational way for China to react to market exclusion? Given the size of the upside economically this would be a cheap investment. Most likely, somebody tries to forbid it.
- ksec 2y ago
  I believe one point in time the US forbid its citizens to work on certain companies / technology outside US or risk losing their citizenship.
  - spacemanspiff01 2y ago
    I mean even now, there is ITAR, which makes working on unauthorized technologies in foreign countries illegal.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  It's nothing new. Chinese companies (mainland and Taiwan) have always courted "returnees" and "foreign experts" to develop their own capabilities. Famous case in point is the very founder of TSMC, Morris Chang, who was convinced to move to Taiwan from the US to lead a research institute, which ultimately led to him starting TSMC. Of course, as criticality increases so does the number of zeroes on the offer.
  - wglass 2y ago
    How is this different than a US or European based company hiring someone with a high degree of knowledge from another US or European country? What makes this more of a ethical violation because a national order was crossed?
- shigawire 2y ago
  Yes and it has done so successfully for years. An interesting high profile example: https://meet-global.bnext.com.tw/articles/view/47800 https://meet-global.bnext.com.tw/articles/view/47800?
IYasha 2y ago
Not really news to me: at least one certain well-known telecom company was scouting specialists from all over the world (from US to EU and Russia) and bombarding them with astronomical salaries. I'm not saying no one used this tactic before China. It's centuries old. But in this case those engineers or scientists are super-rare (unique), extremely valuable and desired. So, in multi-billion strategic industry it's worth paying triple for them. But, I guess, it takes unbelievable amount of loyalty/patriotism to stay when you're offered so much..
- Salmonfisher11 2y ago
  > But, I guess, it takes unbelievable amount of loyalty/patriotism to stay when you're offered so much.. Just offer them remote work and they are gone, lol.
metalman 2y ago
Western policy is inculpatory in that it explicitly categorises chips as weapons that only work, if the other side does not have them.This is very much like the MAD principle of nukelear weapons bieng grudgingly accepted. I think we are all better off if war is forced to devolve into symbolic fights, involving badass motherfuckers with swords and shit, it bieng 2024, it would be bass ass mofo's and mofoet's and big piles of physical gold on the line. The present situation has large numbers of passive aggressives, toying with the infrastructure of armagedon, and realy no one much, is enjoying anything now.
- evoke4908 2y ago
  Nuclear
  - Two4 2y ago
    Newcleeur
mrlonglong 2y ago
This is what happens when you lock out countries. They develop their own IP. Sometimes that IP can be far better.

33 points by qwertox 2y ago

ggm 2y ago

Isn't this an entirely rational way for China to react to market exclusion? Given the size of the upside economically this would be a cheap investment. Most likely, somebody tries to forbid it.

ksec 2y ago
I believe one point in time the US forbid its citizens to work on certain companies / technology outside US or risk losing their citizenship.
- spacemanspiff01 2y ago
  I mean even now, there is ITAR, which makes working on unauthorized technologies in foreign countries illegal.
mytailorisrich 2y ago
It's nothing new. Chinese companies (mainland and Taiwan) have always courted "returnees" and "foreign experts" to develop their own capabilities. Famous case in point is the very founder of TSMC, Morris Chang, who was convinced to move to Taiwan from the US to lead a research institute, which ultimately led to him starting TSMC. Of course, as criticality increases so does the number of zeroes on the offer.
- wglass 2y ago
  How is this different than a US or European based company hiring someone with a high degree of knowledge from another US or European country? What makes this more of a ethical violation because a national order was crossed?
shigawire 2y ago
Yes and it has done so successfully for years. An interesting high profile example: https://meet-global.bnext.com.tw/articles/view/47800 https://meet-global.bnext.com.tw/articles/view/47800?

IYasha 2y ago

Not really news to me: at least one certain well-known telecom company was scouting specialists from all over the world (from US to EU and Russia) and bombarding them with astronomical salaries. I'm not saying no one used this tactic before China. It's centuries old. But in this case those engineers or scientists are super-rare (unique), extremely valuable and desired. So, in multi-billion strategic industry it's worth paying triple for them. But, I guess, it takes unbelievable amount of loyalty/patriotism to stay when you're offered so much..

Salmonfisher11 2y ago
> But, I guess, it takes unbelievable amount of loyalty/patriotism to stay when you're offered so much.. Just offer them remote work and they are gone, lol.

metalman 2y ago

Western policy is inculpatory in that it explicitly categorises chips as weapons that only work, if the other side does not have them.This is very much like the MAD principle of nukelear weapons bieng grudgingly accepted. I think we are all better off if war is forced to devolve into symbolic fights, involving badass motherfuckers with swords and shit, it bieng 2024, it would be bass ass mofo's and mofoet's and big piles of physical gold on the line. The present situation has large numbers of passive aggressives, toying with the infrastructure of armagedon, and realy no one much, is enjoying anything now.

evoke4908 2y ago
Nuclear
- Two4 2y ago
  Newcleeur

mrlonglong 2y ago

This is what happens when you lock out countries. They develop their own IP. Sometimes that IP can be far better.