9 ms·

Ukraine has become a breeding ground for lethal drug-resistant bacteria

62 points by drcwpl 2y ago

Sabinus 2y ago
The war and the culturing of drug resistant bacteria can be ended sooner if Ukraine is provided with enough material to apply sufficient pressure to Russia to bring them to the table.
- ramon156 2y ago
  I don't like dabbling in politics, but can anyone confidently say "give them x and y and this war is over" Because I would have no idea how to determine what would be needed to bring peace
  - bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - yieldcrv 2y ago
      In my experience, even Russians that are avoiding Russia have the mindset that the US/West pissed Putin off and this is the explanation for anything that befalls Ukraine, with of course the idea that Ukraine and the US can end it by giving Putin the taken territory as if its a troll toll pervasive victim blaming that never acknowledges the choice that the aggressor made, its his “special military operation”
      - Schiendelman 2y ago
        It doesn't matter what they think. It only matters if they can't afford to eat. Shell them until they can't and they will stop; it's really irrelevant how they justify it to themselves. Failing to make this choice was the singular point that could have prevented World War II. Destroying Russia's ability to make war is the only way to prevent World War III.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - nradov 2y ago
    There are no guarantees in war but giving Ukraine sufficient advanced weapons to kill a few million more Russians would likely bring peace. Russian manpower reserves are deep but not unlimited. And even if that doesn't work it will at least weaken Russia enough to significantly reduce the threat to our NATO allies in Eastern Europe. Don't think that Russia will stop with conquering Ukraine. They'll keep advancing as long as they have the means.
    - nightowl_games 2y ago
      From what source do you base your certainty? For example, Jeffrey Sachs has a very different opinion than you. From whom can I hear the steel man case for your statements?
      - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
        Russia cannot issue a general conscription, their regime would collapse. You can see this because they are choosing mercenaries and ethnic conscription, and north Korean soldiers. Russia was already suffering a demographic cliff, this was effectively the last generation of men that could be thrown at a war. Russia is a racial hegemony of the Caucasian Rus ruling over central Asian ethnic 'stans. Think chechnya and Georgia at a minimum. So if too many Russians are conscripted and die, they cannot be used to keep the other provinces in line. The entire Russian state collapsed. Consider that each conscription round entails as much or more population flight from the country, do you raise 100,000 soldiers, 250,000 more flee the country. Jeffrey Sachs is an economist and he's been criticizing the war for the entire time , repeating points that I'm pretty clearly are direct Russian propaganda parroting, but fine one mans propaganda is another mans opinion. Putin has shown the usual authoritarian contempt for peace, treaty, and diplomacy. Negotiating a cease fire at this point is appeasement, "peace in our time" foolishness. Putin thinks Europe is weak and cowardly, and now he thinks the US is working in his interests and will not honor article 5 of NATO.
      - nradov 2y ago
        I claimed no certainty. As I stated above, nothing in war is certain. Jeffrey Sachs is just some guy. He has no more expertise in this area than I do so you can take whatever opinion you like.
  - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
    If a couple squadrons of modern NATO aircraft were employed, It would mean total air superiority, All Russian tanks Artillery antiaircraft and apcs destroyed within a week, absolutely no supplies going to the troops on the ground.
    - ranger207 2y ago
      I'm a strong supporter of giving more material to Ukraine, but unfortunately a couple squadrons wouldn't make much of a dent. For air supremacy where you can do whatever you want in the air, you need to destroy enemy air defenses; even if you don't have complete air supremacy you need to create localized air supremacy to do missions. SEAD and DEAD (suppression and destruction of enemy air defenses, respectively) is extremely difficult and there's really one one country that has the means and requirement to do so, the US. Currently most aircraft in Ukraine on both sides are engaging in standoff attacks because getting anywhere near the front exposes you to massive amounts of air defenses. If the US could donate several squadrons, including specialized electronic warfare craft, and could train Ukrainian pilots on SEAD/DEAD then there'd be a chance to roll back Russian air defenses, but that's unlikely to happen even in the best case scenario. It's important to keep sending planes to Ukraine to prevent them from losing the air war, but I doubt there's anything that can be done for Ukraine to win the air war
      - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
        The squadrons I'm suggesting who would supply or contract would be modern us planes, which to your point are the ones would be necessary to gain complete destruction of air defenses. The question was what weapon would significantly turn the tide. So we are actually kind of in in agreement.
  - NicoJuicy 2y ago
    Give Ukraine rockets to attack all of Russian oil revenue. Then they can't fund it anymore. Russia also sells oil below profitable internally and to friendly countries to keep them happy. So you don't need to destroy them all of the time. Their oil companies are already non profitable. The main problem here is that the US doesn't want oil prices to rise and that's why it's barely done by Ukraine. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/09/27/gazprom-drops-from-russias-most-profitable-company-to-outside-forbes-top-100-a86502 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/09/27/gazprom-drops-from... The economy is on the brink of disaster, it's almost all war fueled now. Russian military capacity is evading day by day ( tanks, men, ... ). It won't be a threat to NATO anymore in 2-3 years, if it's funded by domestic means ofc. Putin won't attack with nucleair missles. The problems would increase a lot ( eg. Because of the nuclear assured destruction, china would stop immediately helping Russia). Probably Russia would collapse further like in 1991.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - spiderfarmer 2y ago
    They should not. It’s not their war. Instead, just give Ukraine what they need to defend themselves.
    - consumer451 2y ago
      It is utterly insane to me that this is still a conversation. Ukrainians have been sacrificing their lives to defend us all from Russian imperialism, and all they ask for is weapons. It's almost three years on now, and yet here we are. POV: EU/US dual citizen, in EU for the last 8 years.
    - xcrunner529 2y ago
      Ha yeah and hitler would have just stayed in Germany. The pure ignorance of foreign affairs you are publicly showing is astounding.
      - spiderfarmer 2y ago
        If they step into Nato territory it's obviously a different discussion. If you want to call me ignorant for stating obvious facts, you do you.
    - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
      Ukraine is fighting a war that prevents direct NATO Russia conflict on the polish border. Russia has publicly stated their geopolitical goal is to reestablish control of the Suwalto gap. That is in Poland I believe. An invasion of Poland prompts all NATO members to declare war and attack Russia. With the state of Russia's armed forces, NATO would devastate Russian armed forces within a week to the point, the Russian regime would not be able to defend itself from internal threats. That would imply nukes
      - 2y ago
- refurb 2y ago
  Look at the population of Russia and Ukraine. Even with endless material Ukraine is going to run out of a meat puppets long before Russia.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    Not if they have enough materiel to kill at a 4:1 ratio or better.
    - consumer451 2y ago
      Exactly. Ukraine has claimed a recent 6:1 ratio, and Moscow has found it necessary to bring in reinforcements from North Korea.
      - dralley 2y ago
        Ukraine doesn't claim a 6:1 ratio overall. Only in certain parts of the front line during certain periods of fighting is it so lopsided, such as the recent Russian attempts to retake Kursk or the early assaults on Bakhmut and Vulhedar. An optimistic estimate for the overall war would be more like 2.5 to 1, but realistically it's probably lower. Equipment kills are another story.
        AtlasBarfed 2y ago
        Russia is losing 1000+ a day. I get thee is propaganda, but it would be news is Ukraine was losing 400/day. The rate of Russian advance (that is, extremely slow) would imply the kill rations are very high in Ukraine's favor
        dralley 2y ago
        You can't really imply kill ratios by the speed of the advance, it doesn't work like that.
        2y ago
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
r721 2y ago
See also: >Gaza bombardment worsens superbug outbreaks https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2024-11-19/gaza-bombardment-worsens-superbug-outbreaks/ https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2024-11-19/gaz... >Wars are breeding superbugs that will spread 'everywhere' https://www.politico.eu/article/war-ukraine-gaza-superbugs-spread-who-amr-global-emergency/ https://www.politico.eu/article/war-ukraine-gaza-superbugs-s...

62 points by drcwpl 2y ago

The war and the culturing of drug resistant bacteria can be ended sooner if Ukraine is provided with enough material to apply sufficient pressure to Russia to bring them to the table.

ramon156 2y ago
I don't like dabbling in politics, but can anyone confidently say "give them x and y and this war is over" Because I would have no idea how to determine what would be needed to bring peace
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - yieldcrv 2y ago
    In my experience, even Russians that are avoiding Russia have the mindset that the US/West pissed Putin off and this is the explanation for anything that befalls Ukraine, with of course the idea that Ukraine and the US can end it by giving Putin the taken territory as if its a troll toll pervasive victim blaming that never acknowledges the choice that the aggressor made, its his “special military operation”
    - Schiendelman 2y ago
      It doesn't matter what they think. It only matters if they can't afford to eat. Shell them until they can't and they will stop; it's really irrelevant how they justify it to themselves. Failing to make this choice was the singular point that could have prevented World War II. Destroying Russia's ability to make war is the only way to prevent World War III.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- nradov 2y ago
  There are no guarantees in war but giving Ukraine sufficient advanced weapons to kill a few million more Russians would likely bring peace. Russian manpower reserves are deep but not unlimited. And even if that doesn't work it will at least weaken Russia enough to significantly reduce the threat to our NATO allies in Eastern Europe. Don't think that Russia will stop with conquering Ukraine. They'll keep advancing as long as they have the means.
  - nightowl_games 2y ago
    From what source do you base your certainty? For example, Jeffrey Sachs has a very different opinion than you. From whom can I hear the steel man case for your statements?
    - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
      Russia cannot issue a general conscription, their regime would collapse. You can see this because they are choosing mercenaries and ethnic conscription, and north Korean soldiers. Russia was already suffering a demographic cliff, this was effectively the last generation of men that could be thrown at a war. Russia is a racial hegemony of the Caucasian Rus ruling over central Asian ethnic 'stans. Think chechnya and Georgia at a minimum. So if too many Russians are conscripted and die, they cannot be used to keep the other provinces in line. The entire Russian state collapsed. Consider that each conscription round entails as much or more population flight from the country, do you raise 100,000 soldiers, 250,000 more flee the country. Jeffrey Sachs is an economist and he's been criticizing the war for the entire time , repeating points that I'm pretty clearly are direct Russian propaganda parroting, but fine one mans propaganda is another mans opinion. Putin has shown the usual authoritarian contempt for peace, treaty, and diplomacy. Negotiating a cease fire at this point is appeasement, "peace in our time" foolishness. Putin thinks Europe is weak and cowardly, and now he thinks the US is working in his interests and will not honor article 5 of NATO.
    - nradov 2y ago
      I claimed no certainty. As I stated above, nothing in war is certain. Jeffrey Sachs is just some guy. He has no more expertise in this area than I do so you can take whatever opinion you like.
- AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  If a couple squadrons of modern NATO aircraft were employed, It would mean total air superiority, All Russian tanks Artillery antiaircraft and apcs destroyed within a week, absolutely no supplies going to the troops on the ground.
  - ranger207 2y ago
    I'm a strong supporter of giving more material to Ukraine, but unfortunately a couple squadrons wouldn't make much of a dent. For air supremacy where you can do whatever you want in the air, you need to destroy enemy air defenses; even if you don't have complete air supremacy you need to create localized air supremacy to do missions. SEAD and DEAD (suppression and destruction of enemy air defenses, respectively) is extremely difficult and there's really one one country that has the means and requirement to do so, the US. Currently most aircraft in Ukraine on both sides are engaging in standoff attacks because getting anywhere near the front exposes you to massive amounts of air defenses. If the US could donate several squadrons, including specialized electronic warfare craft, and could train Ukrainian pilots on SEAD/DEAD then there'd be a chance to roll back Russian air defenses, but that's unlikely to happen even in the best case scenario. It's important to keep sending planes to Ukraine to prevent them from losing the air war, but I doubt there's anything that can be done for Ukraine to win the air war
    - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
      The squadrons I'm suggesting who would supply or contract would be modern us planes, which to your point are the ones would be necessary to gain complete destruction of air defenses. The question was what weapon would significantly turn the tide. So we are actually kind of in in agreement.
- NicoJuicy 2y ago
  Give Ukraine rockets to attack all of Russian oil revenue. Then they can't fund it anymore. Russia also sells oil below profitable internally and to friendly countries to keep them happy. So you don't need to destroy them all of the time. Their oil companies are already non profitable. The main problem here is that the US doesn't want oil prices to rise and that's why it's barely done by Ukraine. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/09/27/gazprom-drops-from-russias-most-profitable-company-to-outside-forbes-top-100-a86502 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/09/27/gazprom-drops-from... The economy is on the brink of disaster, it's almost all war fueled now. Russian military capacity is evading day by day ( tanks, men, ... ). It won't be a threat to NATO anymore in 2-3 years, if it's funded by domestic means ofc. Putin won't attack with nucleair missles. The problems would increase a lot ( eg. Because of the nuclear assured destruction, china would stop immediately helping Russia). Probably Russia would collapse further like in 1991.
bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
[flagged]
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  They should not. It’s not their war. Instead, just give Ukraine what they need to defend themselves.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    It is utterly insane to me that this is still a conversation. Ukrainians have been sacrificing their lives to defend us all from Russian imperialism, and all they ask for is weapons. It's almost three years on now, and yet here we are. POV: EU/US dual citizen, in EU for the last 8 years.
  - xcrunner529 2y ago
    Ha yeah and hitler would have just stayed in Germany. The pure ignorance of foreign affairs you are publicly showing is astounding.
    - spiderfarmer 2y ago
      If they step into Nato territory it's obviously a different discussion. If you want to call me ignorant for stating obvious facts, you do you.
  - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
    Ukraine is fighting a war that prevents direct NATO Russia conflict on the polish border. Russia has publicly stated their geopolitical goal is to reestablish control of the Suwalto gap. That is in Poland I believe. An invasion of Poland prompts all NATO members to declare war and attack Russia. With the state of Russia's armed forces, NATO would devastate Russian armed forces within a week to the point, the Russian regime would not be able to defend itself from internal threats. That would imply nukes
    - 2y ago
refurb 2y ago
Look at the population of Russia and Ukraine. Even with endless material Ukraine is going to run out of a meat puppets long before Russia.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Not if they have enough materiel to kill at a 4:1 ratio or better.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    Exactly. Ukraine has claimed a recent 6:1 ratio, and Moscow has found it necessary to bring in reinforcements from North Korea.
    - dralley 2y ago
      Ukraine doesn't claim a 6:1 ratio overall. Only in certain parts of the front line during certain periods of fighting is it so lopsided, such as the recent Russian attempts to retake Kursk or the early assaults on Bakhmut and Vulhedar. An optimistic estimate for the overall war would be more like 2.5 to 1, but realistically it's probably lower. Equipment kills are another story.
      - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
        Russia is losing 1000+ a day. I get thee is propaganda, but it would be news is Ukraine was losing 400/day. The rate of Russian advance (that is, extremely slow) would imply the kill rations are very high in Ukraine's favor
        dralley 2y ago
        You can't really imply kill ratios by the speed of the advance, it doesn't work like that.
        2y ago

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

r721 2y ago

See also: >Gaza bombardment worsens superbug outbreaks https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2024-11-19/gaza-bombardment-worsens-superbug-outbreaks/ https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2024-11-19/gaz... >Wars are breeding superbugs that will spread 'everywhere' https://www.politico.eu/article/war-ukraine-gaza-superbugs-spread-who-amr-global-emergency/ https://www.politico.eu/article/war-ukraine-gaza-superbugs-s...