4 ms·

What’s your take on where Bsky will take “safety”? I’ve seen right-leaning satire sites get flagged as “Intolerance”, which is fueling a fire that Bsky will ca

What’s your take on where Bsky will take “safety”? I’ve seen right-leaning satire sites get flagged as “Intolerance”, which is fueling a fire that Bsky will cater to a left-leaning audience.

downWidOutaFite 2y ago
If you want to be catered to as a right-leaner you can just stay on X.
Zak 2y ago
One of my favorite design decisions in Bluesky is that you can set any label from any labeler to off, warn, or hide, including @moderation.bsky.app. If you think that labeler applies the "Intolerance" label incorrectly, just turn it off.
- bradgessler 2y ago
  Yeah, I like that too. Technically there’s a lot of really great design decisions that were made, but I’ve seen people take screenshots of the app and crying “censorship!” not understanding it’s a setting that can be changed or that a different client could be implemented against aproto. I don’t think they’re wrong either based on past precedent and their mental model of how most social networks work. I’d propose that Bsky instead asks the user if they want to view the content or block it, allowing them to change the setting right then and there (and not have to dig), instead of outright saying “Intolerant” and making them jump through hoops every time they want to view it.
  - Zak 2y ago
    I think anyone who wants to make a social thing popular with a mainstream audience is strongly incentivized to ensure that newcomers don't encounter Nazi shit. I think most of us know the parable of the Nazi bar. Of course anyone who wants to stick around should eventually learn a bit about how the moderation works so they can decide what they want to see and what they don't.
    - bradgessler 2y ago
      There’s a huge gap between “nazi shit” and bad satire. I don’t think the content being labeled as “Intolerant” is funny, but I do care about how history rhymes. Reddit hit a decent balance by calling it “NSFW” and letting people change the setting as they encounter it.
      - Zak 2y ago
        I think I wasn't clear enough. Bluesky has a strong incentive to hide extremist content by default, but I do not claim their moderation service applies the intolerance label correctly.
      - orwin 2y ago
        I think 'intolerant' is good enough. I know I am intolerant/insensitive on some stuff and I would accept that a post I would make mocking animal death (not proud but I did that) to be flagged as intolerant or whatever. Honestly it's often low-brow anyway, nothing of value is lost.
  - downWidOutaFite 2y ago
    I think they are wrong. We are fleeing X because a lot of right winger's mental model for appropriate political discussion with liberals is mostly mean trollish harassment, purposefully putting people down and trying to make people feel bad so they can "drink liberal tears". It's not good faith counterpoints. Avoiding that is not censorship of ideas.
    - valval 2y ago
      Would you be able to link some examples of this happening? I think giving one or two examples should be sufficient, if they have high engagement.
      - paulgb 2y ago
        The taunt of “your body, my choice” in the days after the election (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/11/11/business/your-body-my-choice-movement-election https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/11/11/business/your-body-my-cho...) Kasey links to some examples of how prevalent anon accounts spewing outright racism is in this thread from today: https://x.com/kaseyklimes/status/1862323859321483316 https://x.com/kaseyklimes/status/1862323859321483316
        valval 2y ago
        By googling “your body my choice” I can find pages of left wing news articles but no examples whatsoever. Did you miss the fact that X is a platform based on free speech? People are allowed to out themselves as whatever they want, which is a good thing. The examples you’re linking to have 0 likes on them, so I wouldn’t be all that worried about anonymous teenager provocateurs who are trying to get a reaction out of people.
        dom96 2y ago
        > Did you miss the fact that X is a platform based on free speech? How can you say this with a straight face? I am genuinely baffled by people who hold this view. Just because you say that your platform is all about “free speech” doesn’t mean it is and there are clear actions that X/Elon took which go against that claim. The primary of which being that posting “cisgender” gets your post flagged and demoted in the algorithm and that Elonjet was banned. How can you seriously claim free speech absolutism when there are direct examples showing the very opposite.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  In other words, you're doing your own moderation; that's great.
- reticulan 2y ago
  One design drawback/bug is that at any point a labeler you subscribe to (even if you set it to !warn) can start issuing labels that are set to !hide and you will not even be notified, posts will just start disappearing. https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/issues/2367 https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/issues/2367
madeofpalk 2y ago
Bluesky has a really neat approach to composable moderation. You can subscribe to one of the many labellers and decide how you want your feed to be moderated. e.g. to hide US Politics https://bsky.app/profile/uspol.bluesky.bot https://bsky.app/profile/uspol.bluesky.bot or spoilers https://bsky.app/profile/mod.shawn.party https://bsky.app/profile/mod.shawn.party or transphobia https://bsky.app/profile/asukafield.xyz https://bsky.app/profile/asukafield.xyz. I haven't used any of these, so I can't attest to their quality, but it's a unique approach. Personally, I subscribed to one that hides the engagement-farm follow bots that works. Of course the other part is Bluesky's PDS (the 'instance' hosting content for those who sign up on bsky.app) - they're free to moderate their infrastructure however they see fit. You might find yourself banned from there, but you can always host your own PDS and still be followable on bluesky.
dicjsnw 2y ago
Probably because right-leaning satire sites promote intolerance. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck…
rsynnott 2y ago
Is this the Babylon Bee? Like, it posts a lot of transphobic stuff. What would you call that, if not intolerance? There’s an odd tendency amongst the modern far-right to want to (a) be openly bigoted but (b) not to be judged for it. I feel like this ‘snowflake bigot’ phenomenon was born a couple of decades back, with some homophobes getting very upset about the term ‘homophobe’, not because they felt it was inaccurate as such, but because they felt it cast their thing as a _bad_ intolerance, like racism.
GaryNumanVevo 2y ago
You can just turn off any moderation labels for "Intolerance"

downWidOutaFite 2y ago

If you want to be catered to as a right-leaner you can just stay on X.

Zak 2y ago

One of my favorite design decisions in Bluesky is that you can set any label from any labeler to off, warn, or hide, including @moderation.bsky.app. If you think that labeler applies the "Intolerance" label incorrectly, just turn it off.

bradgessler 2y ago
Yeah, I like that too. Technically there’s a lot of really great design decisions that were made, but I’ve seen people take screenshots of the app and crying “censorship!” not understanding it’s a setting that can be changed or that a different client could be implemented against aproto. I don’t think they’re wrong either based on past precedent and their mental model of how most social networks work. I’d propose that Bsky instead asks the user if they want to view the content or block it, allowing them to change the setting right then and there (and not have to dig), instead of outright saying “Intolerant” and making them jump through hoops every time they want to view it.
- Zak 2y ago
  I think anyone who wants to make a social thing popular with a mainstream audience is strongly incentivized to ensure that newcomers don't encounter Nazi shit. I think most of us know the parable of the Nazi bar. Of course anyone who wants to stick around should eventually learn a bit about how the moderation works so they can decide what they want to see and what they don't.
  - bradgessler 2y ago
    There’s a huge gap between “nazi shit” and bad satire. I don’t think the content being labeled as “Intolerant” is funny, but I do care about how history rhymes. Reddit hit a decent balance by calling it “NSFW” and letting people change the setting as they encounter it.
    - Zak 2y ago
      I think I wasn't clear enough. Bluesky has a strong incentive to hide extremist content by default, but I do not claim their moderation service applies the intolerance label correctly.
    - orwin 2y ago
      I think 'intolerant' is good enough. I know I am intolerant/insensitive on some stuff and I would accept that a post I would make mocking animal death (not proud but I did that) to be flagged as intolerant or whatever. Honestly it's often low-brow anyway, nothing of value is lost.
- downWidOutaFite 2y ago
  I think they are wrong. We are fleeing X because a lot of right winger's mental model for appropriate political discussion with liberals is mostly mean trollish harassment, purposefully putting people down and trying to make people feel bad so they can "drink liberal tears". It's not good faith counterpoints. Avoiding that is not censorship of ideas.
  - valval 2y ago
    Would you be able to link some examples of this happening? I think giving one or two examples should be sufficient, if they have high engagement.
    - paulgb 2y ago
      The taunt of “your body, my choice” in the days after the election (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/11/11/business/your-body-my-choice-movement-election https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/11/11/business/your-body-my-cho...) Kasey links to some examples of how prevalent anon accounts spewing outright racism is in this thread from today: https://x.com/kaseyklimes/status/1862323859321483316 https://x.com/kaseyklimes/status/1862323859321483316
      - valval 2y ago
        By googling “your body my choice” I can find pages of left wing news articles but no examples whatsoever. Did you miss the fact that X is a platform based on free speech? People are allowed to out themselves as whatever they want, which is a good thing. The examples you’re linking to have 0 likes on them, so I wouldn’t be all that worried about anonymous teenager provocateurs who are trying to get a reaction out of people.
        dom96 2y ago
        > Did you miss the fact that X is a platform based on free speech? How can you say this with a straight face? I am genuinely baffled by people who hold this view. Just because you say that your platform is all about “free speech” doesn’t mean it is and there are clear actions that X/Elon took which go against that claim. The primary of which being that posting “cisgender” gets your post flagged and demoted in the algorithm and that Elonjet was banned. How can you seriously claim free speech absolutism when there are direct examples showing the very opposite.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
In other words, you're doing your own moderation; that's great.
reticulan 2y ago
One design drawback/bug is that at any point a labeler you subscribe to (even if you set it to !warn) can start issuing labels that are set to !hide and you will not even be notified, posts will just start disappearing. https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/issues/2367 https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/issues/2367

madeofpalk 2y ago

Bluesky has a really neat approach to composable moderation. You can subscribe to one of the many labellers and decide how you want your feed to be moderated. e.g. to hide US Politics https://bsky.app/profile/uspol.bluesky.bot https://bsky.app/profile/uspol.bluesky.bot or spoilers https://bsky.app/profile/mod.shawn.party https://bsky.app/profile/mod.shawn.party or transphobia https://bsky.app/profile/asukafield.xyz https://bsky.app/profile/asukafield.xyz. I haven't used any of these, so I can't attest to their quality, but it's a unique approach. Personally, I subscribed to one that hides the engagement-farm follow bots that works. Of course the other part is Bluesky's PDS (the 'instance' hosting content for those who sign up on bsky.app) - they're free to moderate their infrastructure however they see fit. You might find yourself banned from there, but you can always host your own PDS and still be followable on bluesky.

dicjsnw 2y ago

Probably because right-leaning satire sites promote intolerance. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck…

rsynnott 2y ago

Is this the Babylon Bee? Like, it posts a lot of transphobic stuff. What would you call that, if not intolerance? There’s an odd tendency amongst the modern far-right to want to (a) be openly bigoted but (b) not to be judged for it. I feel like this ‘snowflake bigot’ phenomenon was born a couple of decades back, with some homophobes getting very upset about the term ‘homophobe’, not because they felt it was inaccurate as such, but because they felt it cast their thing as a _bad_ intolerance, like racism.

GaryNumanVevo 2y ago

You can just turn off any moderation labels for "Intolerance"