5 ms·

Jazz Kissa

vjulian 2y ago
In the US, it seems to me that active listening is not encouraged, outside of music study. I find it odd that the average person can watch a movie and subsequently analyze it in a basic framework of plot, arc, protagonist and so forth—-yet when it comes to music there is ignorance and a lack of vocabulary.
- urbanredeemer 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - beepbooptheory 2y ago
    Is this anecdotal? Feels like we live in very different worlds if so. But if this is maybe just more from watching the news, I can understand why you believe it. But just know we are all out here, outside the tubes, living in a society! Its messy, but people are still people, and most everyone is kind if you just talk to them. You simply must not just watch the news or viral Karen videos or whatever and use it all as your only basis for such an utter fatalism. Not for any moral reason or anything else, but truly just for your own emotional well being. You will have happier days.
    - urbanredeemer 2y ago
      As one who has been around for a while, has lived in various US and European cities both big and small, and who currently lives in a pleasant mid-sized city nonetheless plagued by our uniquely American problems, this comment strikes me as the critters in Animal Farm discussing how much better life got after the Revolution. The implicit message of menace towards those who disagree is no less clear.
      - beepbooptheory 2y ago
        Im sorry that you felt menace. Good luck with all your problems! Happiness is overrated anyway, its better to be realistic about human nature right? One day I'm sure ill be as wise and worldly as you, I just need to shake off all this unfounded optimism! Don't worry, you have helped with that a little I suspect, so thank you so much for the dose of hard reality.
        urbanredeemer 2y ago
        [flagged]
        beepbooptheory 2y ago
        "Theres the respect that makes calamity of so long life."
- chb 2y ago
  Education in the US has devolved to the point where music appreciation is only taught in the most prestigious of private primary and secondary schools, and perhaps in the public schools of wealthy neighborhoods.
  - urbanredeemer 2y ago
    I’d like to find out what you think is really the problem. Do you believe inner-city schools aren’t funded enough to sit kids down and make them listen to Bach? Do you think kids in the rough parts of Milwaukee are just waiting for a bright-eyed teacher to play the right tape for the class? Every one of those kids has access to YouTube. Spotify is free. It isn’t the 1980s anymore, and “lack of access” isn’t why some groups like classical while others prefer drill music. Universal global access to high art and the tools of cultural creation have dispelled a great many blank-slate myths.
- imiric 2y ago
  I'm not sure if the average person has the patience to sit through an entire movie anymore either, and not just in the US. Smartphones and social media have shortened our attention spans by making us crave for quick dopamine hits. I used to be able to watch an entire movie uninterrupted, whereas now if the movie is not engaging, I tend to reach for my phone. Music enjoyment has also taken a back seat, and I usually put it on in the background while I'm focusing on something else, instead of actively listening to it. I think the shift from music being released as part of thematic albums on physical media to individual tracks on online services is part of the reason for this. The average music listener just hits shuffle on a random playlist rather than focusing on a specific band, album or even genre.
  - emchammer 2y ago
    I would like to see Quentin Tarantino take on current-day issues. Who else is making movies worth watching any more besides Martin Scorsese? All the good movies have been made. Forbidden Planet was based on Shakespeare and it still shines. Generative AI tools show that it comes down to plots. I watched that Star Wars as a 1950s Panavision sci-fi at least a dozen times.
    - AlexeyBelov 2y ago
      Martin Scorsese makes the same movie over and over.
- luqtas 2y ago
  dunno if vocabulary and theory background actually is useful for appreciation/experience btw, i'm still waiting an EDM club/rave with non damaging volume levels where no one is allowed to talk on the dance-floor
simonebrunozzi 2y ago
I will have a space available in Venice, Italy, and I am considering giving it to someone willing to open a Jazz Kissa here. Curious to hear if people from HN would consider this a good idea or not.
- dlisboa 2y ago
  It's about the last thing I'd expect to see in Venice so I think it's a pretty good idea. Venice seemed to me a place that looks more like a massive historical theme park, while still authentic and very much in the right place, it did not strike me as normal that tourists would just find someone going about their day as an Instagram opportunity ("look that Venician is buying bread, how authentic! Let's crowd his house and take pictures!"). It didn't seem to me like a place where one is supposed to live, just supposed to go and see. A historical zoo would be a more outrageous way to put it. What can I say, I was probably part of the problem. So I think it's a good thing any idea that makes these touristy places look like cities where people actually live, people with different interests other than what you'd expect. Just not sure if it's a profitable idea (are Italians very into Jazz?).
- Tiktaalik 2y ago
  Sounds like a great idea to me.
tokioyoyo 2y ago
I went to 10 of them this year, as I was travelling from Hokkaido to Kyushu throughout a couple of months. Found one accidentally in Sapporo, then actively looked for others in every city. It’s weird how I can recall every single one of them from memory too, as they were all simple, but genuinely a good time (and slightly different in terms of vibes and clientele it would attract). But it’s also sad how this would absolutely never work in NA due to commercial rent prices. Most of them seemed to be ran by an older man (70+, I’d guess). And from my chats with some of them, they owned the property as well. It was just a blissful experience to have a drink, listen to music that the owner deemed to find great, and just let your mind wander around. One of them introduced me to some amazing jazz bands that I’ve never heard of, and talked a lot about the history of such places. Shout out to Hideki-san!
- pavlov 2y ago
  Yes, I don’t suppose there are cities in America that are both walkable and cheap enough that a jazz fan could own a small commercial property for this purpose (if they didn’t get rich from something else before). Seems like a possibility in smaller European cities though.
  - tokioyoyo 2y ago
    Hm, maybe! I guess depends on the European city as well? It's like a perfect balance for Japan where the average age is very old, so a lot of retirees who just sip a cup of coffee for a couple of hours. But also, a cultural acceptance of flying solo, sitting by yourself at a table, basically doing nothing and listening until it's your time to go home. To be fair though, all the places I went to were much less busier than actual local bars or designated cafes. A couple of places were just full of regulars (I went to a couple of them multiple times, and it was exactly the same people) with clienteles with average age of 60+. Obviously I have extremely limited amount of data points, so might be very wrong.
- ragazzina 2y ago
  >would absolutely never work in NA due to commercial rent prices Iw was my understanding that NA rent prices are much lower than in places with high population density such as Europe or Japan? Every time I am in the USA I am shocked by the amount of commercial activities that would never work in Europe because of the sheer amount of space required to host them.
hajhatten 2y ago
As a Swede, this is a pretty interesting name. Jazz means what you expect it to mean in Swedish, but Kissa = to pee. Jazz cigarette is an old slang for a joint, thought it had some connection.
- foobarbecue 2y ago
  In English, it's close to "ass kisser" ... and I'm wondering if the pun is intentional. My experience living in Japan tells me it's probably just a coincidence. They often seem to stumble into these!
- vlindhol 2y ago
  In Finnish, kissa means cat. ”Jazz cat”, sounds pretty jazzy!
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- 180 2y ago
  "Kissa" (喫茶) in Japanese means tea-sipping, and sometimes it's pronounced "kiccha". Jazz Kissas today would be places to be under influence of alcohol or caffeine and concentrate on listening to jazz, but kind of often in 60s also under influence of non-legal stuff. It's kind of interesting that we Japanese received what was originally a dance music and allocated it to our custom/culture to sit and listen like to a preaching. I guess people might had felt some kind of awe or something from it those days.
Gys 2y ago
I saw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Giant_(manga) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Giant_(manga) not long ago. So now I understand these small jazz places actually exist, thanks!
mongol 2y ago
[flagged]
huimang 2y ago
There's one in Tokyo near Jimbocho station called "Jazz BIGBOY" that I quite enjoyed. It looked like it was run entirely by one elderly gentleman. Jimbocho also has a lot of used book stores, I highly recommend checking the area out.
DannyPage 2y ago
Highly suggest this book on Kissas and experiencing Japan through walking. Immersive photography as well. https://shop.specialprojects.jp/products/kissa-by-kissa-4th-ed https://shop.specialprojects.jp/products/kissa-by-kissa-4th-...
n-exploit 2y ago
I love the idea of a Jazz Kissa, but I wonder if this would even work in the U.S. due to intellectual property/rights restrictions. It was probably less of a problem when you owned physical copies, but I don’t see it working (legally) with digital rights restrictions. I worked as a barista over a decade ago and our cafe paid a not insignificant amount of special CDs that were allowed for public retail use (Muzak?)
Simon_ORourke 2y ago
Apologies to any actual jazz fans, but whenever someone mentions a jazz club my mind goes to this... https://youtu.be/TebUMhJAKSM https://youtu.be/TebUMhJAKSM
anon291 2y ago
Honestly this sounds amazing.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tenwz 2y ago
[dead]
codethief 2y ago
Somewhat related: Manga kissa[0] I stayed at one in Tokyo one night when I couldn't find accommodation. (Cherry blossom + uni graduation weekend = everything is booked.) [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga_cafe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga_cafe
rogy 2y ago
a few of these have opened in the UK but after visiting a number of them in Tokyo they just don’t work here. people are loud and they mostly are just trendy up-market bars, rather than a place to enjoy the music. staff in two of the places i visited in tokyo actively shushed you if you were too loud, which is actually a feature, to me

In the US, it seems to me that active listening is not encouraged, outside of music study. I find it odd that the average person can watch a movie and subsequently analyze it in a basic framework of plot, arc, protagonist and so forth—-yet when it comes to music there is ignorance and a lack of vocabulary.

urbanredeemer 2y ago
[flagged]
- beepbooptheory 2y ago
  Is this anecdotal? Feels like we live in very different worlds if so. But if this is maybe just more from watching the news, I can understand why you believe it. But just know we are all out here, outside the tubes, living in a society! Its messy, but people are still people, and most everyone is kind if you just talk to them. You simply must not just watch the news or viral Karen videos or whatever and use it all as your only basis for such an utter fatalism. Not for any moral reason or anything else, but truly just for your own emotional well being. You will have happier days.
  - urbanredeemer 2y ago
    As one who has been around for a while, has lived in various US and European cities both big and small, and who currently lives in a pleasant mid-sized city nonetheless plagued by our uniquely American problems, this comment strikes me as the critters in Animal Farm discussing how much better life got after the Revolution. The implicit message of menace towards those who disagree is no less clear.
    - beepbooptheory 2y ago
      Im sorry that you felt menace. Good luck with all your problems! Happiness is overrated anyway, its better to be realistic about human nature right? One day I'm sure ill be as wise and worldly as you, I just need to shake off all this unfounded optimism! Don't worry, you have helped with that a little I suspect, so thank you so much for the dose of hard reality.
      - urbanredeemer 2y ago
        [flagged]
        beepbooptheory 2y ago
        "Theres the respect that makes calamity of so long life."
chb 2y ago
Education in the US has devolved to the point where music appreciation is only taught in the most prestigious of private primary and secondary schools, and perhaps in the public schools of wealthy neighborhoods.
- urbanredeemer 2y ago
  I’d like to find out what you think is really the problem. Do you believe inner-city schools aren’t funded enough to sit kids down and make them listen to Bach? Do you think kids in the rough parts of Milwaukee are just waiting for a bright-eyed teacher to play the right tape for the class? Every one of those kids has access to YouTube. Spotify is free. It isn’t the 1980s anymore, and “lack of access” isn’t why some groups like classical while others prefer drill music. Universal global access to high art and the tools of cultural creation have dispelled a great many blank-slate myths.
imiric 2y ago
I'm not sure if the average person has the patience to sit through an entire movie anymore either, and not just in the US. Smartphones and social media have shortened our attention spans by making us crave for quick dopamine hits. I used to be able to watch an entire movie uninterrupted, whereas now if the movie is not engaging, I tend to reach for my phone. Music enjoyment has also taken a back seat, and I usually put it on in the background while I'm focusing on something else, instead of actively listening to it. I think the shift from music being released as part of thematic albums on physical media to individual tracks on online services is part of the reason for this. The average music listener just hits shuffle on a random playlist rather than focusing on a specific band, album or even genre.
- emchammer 2y ago
  I would like to see Quentin Tarantino take on current-day issues. Who else is making movies worth watching any more besides Martin Scorsese? All the good movies have been made. Forbidden Planet was based on Shakespeare and it still shines. Generative AI tools show that it comes down to plots. I watched that Star Wars as a 1950s Panavision sci-fi at least a dozen times.
  - AlexeyBelov 2y ago
    Martin Scorsese makes the same movie over and over.
luqtas 2y ago
dunno if vocabulary and theory background actually is useful for appreciation/experience btw, i'm still waiting an EDM club/rave with non damaging volume levels where no one is allowed to talk on the dance-floor

simonebrunozzi 2y ago

I will have a space available in Venice, Italy, and I am considering giving it to someone willing to open a Jazz Kissa here. Curious to hear if people from HN would consider this a good idea or not.

dlisboa 2y ago
It's about the last thing I'd expect to see in Venice so I think it's a pretty good idea. Venice seemed to me a place that looks more like a massive historical theme park, while still authentic and very much in the right place, it did not strike me as normal that tourists would just find someone going about their day as an Instagram opportunity ("look that Venician is buying bread, how authentic! Let's crowd his house and take pictures!"). It didn't seem to me like a place where one is supposed to live, just supposed to go and see. A historical zoo would be a more outrageous way to put it. What can I say, I was probably part of the problem. So I think it's a good thing any idea that makes these touristy places look like cities where people actually live, people with different interests other than what you'd expect. Just not sure if it's a profitable idea (are Italians very into Jazz?).
Tiktaalik 2y ago
Sounds like a great idea to me.

tokioyoyo 2y ago

I went to 10 of them this year, as I was travelling from Hokkaido to Kyushu throughout a couple of months. Found one accidentally in Sapporo, then actively looked for others in every city. It’s weird how I can recall every single one of them from memory too, as they were all simple, but genuinely a good time (and slightly different in terms of vibes and clientele it would attract). But it’s also sad how this would absolutely never work in NA due to commercial rent prices. Most of them seemed to be ran by an older man (70+, I’d guess). And from my chats with some of them, they owned the property as well. It was just a blissful experience to have a drink, listen to music that the owner deemed to find great, and just let your mind wander around. One of them introduced me to some amazing jazz bands that I’ve never heard of, and talked a lot about the history of such places. Shout out to Hideki-san!

pavlov 2y ago
Yes, I don’t suppose there are cities in America that are both walkable and cheap enough that a jazz fan could own a small commercial property for this purpose (if they didn’t get rich from something else before). Seems like a possibility in smaller European cities though.
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  Hm, maybe! I guess depends on the European city as well? It's like a perfect balance for Japan where the average age is very old, so a lot of retirees who just sip a cup of coffee for a couple of hours. But also, a cultural acceptance of flying solo, sitting by yourself at a table, basically doing nothing and listening until it's your time to go home. To be fair though, all the places I went to were much less busier than actual local bars or designated cafes. A couple of places were just full of regulars (I went to a couple of them multiple times, and it was exactly the same people) with clienteles with average age of 60+. Obviously I have extremely limited amount of data points, so might be very wrong.
ragazzina 2y ago
>would absolutely never work in NA due to commercial rent prices Iw was my understanding that NA rent prices are much lower than in places with high population density such as Europe or Japan? Every time I am in the USA I am shocked by the amount of commercial activities that would never work in Europe because of the sheer amount of space required to host them.

hajhatten 2y ago

As a Swede, this is a pretty interesting name. Jazz means what you expect it to mean in Swedish, but Kissa = to pee. Jazz cigarette is an old slang for a joint, thought it had some connection.

foobarbecue 2y ago
In English, it's close to "ass kisser" ... and I'm wondering if the pun is intentional. My experience living in Japan tells me it's probably just a coincidence. They often seem to stumble into these!
vlindhol 2y ago
In Finnish, kissa means cat. ”Jazz cat”, sounds pretty jazzy!
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
180 2y ago
"Kissa" (喫茶) in Japanese means tea-sipping, and sometimes it's pronounced "kiccha". Jazz Kissas today would be places to be under influence of alcohol or caffeine and concentrate on listening to jazz, but kind of often in 60s also under influence of non-legal stuff. It's kind of interesting that we Japanese received what was originally a dance music and allocated it to our custom/culture to sit and listen like to a preaching. I guess people might had felt some kind of awe or something from it those days.

Gys 2y ago

I saw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Giant_(manga) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Giant_(manga) not long ago. So now I understand these small jazz places actually exist, thanks!

mongol 2y ago

[flagged]

huimang 2y ago

There's one in Tokyo near Jimbocho station called "Jazz BIGBOY" that I quite enjoyed. It looked like it was run entirely by one elderly gentleman. Jimbocho also has a lot of used book stores, I highly recommend checking the area out.

DannyPage 2y ago

Highly suggest this book on Kissas and experiencing Japan through walking. Immersive photography as well. https://shop.specialprojects.jp/products/kissa-by-kissa-4th-ed https://shop.specialprojects.jp/products/kissa-by-kissa-4th-...

n-exploit 2y ago

I love the idea of a Jazz Kissa, but I wonder if this would even work in the U.S. due to intellectual property/rights restrictions. It was probably less of a problem when you owned physical copies, but I don’t see it working (legally) with digital rights restrictions. I worked as a barista over a decade ago and our cafe paid a not insignificant amount of special CDs that were allowed for public retail use (Muzak?)

Simon_ORourke 2y ago

Apologies to any actual jazz fans, but whenever someone mentions a jazz club my mind goes to this... https://youtu.be/TebUMhJAKSM https://youtu.be/TebUMhJAKSM

anon291 2y ago

Honestly this sounds amazing.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tenwz 2y ago

[dead]

codethief 2y ago

Somewhat related: Manga kissa[0] I stayed at one in Tokyo one night when I couldn't find accommodation. (Cherry blossom + uni graduation weekend = everything is booked.) [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga_cafe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga_cafe

rogy 2y ago

a few of these have opened in the UK but after visiting a number of them in Tokyo they just don’t work here. people are loud and they mostly are just trendy up-market bars, rather than a place to enjoy the music. staff in two of the places i visited in tokyo actively shushed you if you were too loud, which is actually a feature, to me