5 ms·

In official diplomacy that is very much alive, eg for the US: https://www.state.gov/bureaus-offices/secretary-of-state/office-of-the-chief-of-protocol/ https://

In official diplomacy that is very much alive, eg for the US: https://www.state.gov/bureaus-offices/secretary-of-state/office-of-the-chief-of-protocol/ https://www.state.gov/bureaus-offices/secretary-of-state/off... Not just hierarchy but to create a common ground for everyone involved. Very helpful. If you’ve ever felt awkward at an event because you didn’t know the customs — this is to avoid that. EDIT: here is another example, UN protocol in Geneva https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/mission-onu-omc-aele-geneve/en/documents/Practices-of-diplomatic-protocol-2016_EN.pdf https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/mission-onu-omc-aele-geneve/en/...

seabass-labrax 2y ago
Of course, while the USA has been so organised as to develop and document its customs in great detail, this in itself has created a whole new set of customs for foreign diplomats to learn! I also noted with amusement this extract from the USA's Office of the Chief of Protocol website: > Formal invitations... ...preferred lettering style is script and all wording is spelled out without the use of acronyms. Répondez s'il vous plaît?
- watwut 2y ago
  That is not USA specific thing. This is general diplomacy thing. As in, USA is not special and other countries behave in exactly the same way. Diplomats are used to this.
MrMcCall 2y ago
The other way to avoid it is to just respect everyone at your table, like Guru Nanak and those like him who have trod the road to universal compassion, and just keep things as simple as possible. Hierarchies are great for govt, militaries, and companies, but only when kept to a minimum. The US was successful in WWII because the commanders set the goals and then let their sub-leaders get on with their jobs, allowing for creative, adaptive improvisation. Korean Airlines' cultural hierarchies almost got them delisted from Canada's airspace. Spiritual folks within their orgs each have different levels of development, but if someone believes they are "better" than another person, that's the ego. An enlightened individual is kind and respectful to everyone. At the same time, they always bear the truth without regard to people's ego-bruises and supposed slights. Those are what they are and are solely that person's responsibility to level-up from.
- slifin 2y ago
  There's a larger % of the population that you might expect that have no capability for empathy, let alone anything higher The structure is great for those people because then they can get their needs met without having to deal with ideas they do not understand like trust and mutual reciprocation or long-term relationships the structure is easy to exploit with no morals so we end up disproportionately rewarding these people That's why you can't just expect everyone to be respectful and for it to work
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    I didn't say I expect anything from anyone, but we all have the choice, with the very rare exception for those that are developmentally disabled and incapable of rationally choosing. For the vast majority of those of us who have the power to think and consult one's conscience, we can and do choose the course of our action. Over time, we can also choose to escape our ignorance and learn the ideals that facilitate humanity in our mostly mammalian body, and then choose to learn how to be better and then actualize being better. Very few of us have anything but a lame-ass excuse, usually falling back on one's cultural upbringing to make excuses for our deliberate, if unthinking, choices. The best "structure", as you put it, is to make empathy a major part of childhood education, teaching that we are all human beings, each differently endowed but worthy of respect to some degree. As well, we have to teach that we have to resist the inner urgings towards selfishness and ignorance in favor of willful action that will the benefit of the whole. But, no, I do not agree that most people cannot learn such a moral framework, and the proof is the simple fact that we are all living in groups, none of us being completely self-sufficient for all our human survival needs, not to mention those things that bring us entertainment and relaxation.
  - dukeyukey 2y ago
    > There's a larger % of the population that you might expect that have no capability for empathy, let alone anything higher And another big % that purposefully surpress empathetic instincts because of other beliefs.
    - 2y ago
0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
From the UN PDF: >These well-established and time-honoured rules allow nations and peoples from a wide range of cultures and values to conduct their activities with dignity in an environment devoid of frictions. Such animosity can easily arise when one of the parties concerned does not feel treated with respect. >... >Current protocol practices are rooted in history but evolve continuously. There is always a legitimate reason behind a protocol rule or practice. Makes a lot of sense to me. Training your diplomats in protocol is very cheap compared with going to war.

seabass-labrax 2y ago

Of course, while the USA has been so organised as to develop and document its customs in great detail, this in itself has created a whole new set of customs for foreign diplomats to learn! I also noted with amusement this extract from the USA's Office of the Chief of Protocol website: > Formal invitations... ...preferred lettering style is script and all wording is spelled out without the use of acronyms. Répondez s'il vous plaît?

watwut 2y ago
That is not USA specific thing. This is general diplomacy thing. As in, USA is not special and other countries behave in exactly the same way. Diplomats are used to this.

MrMcCall 2y ago

The other way to avoid it is to just respect everyone at your table, like Guru Nanak and those like him who have trod the road to universal compassion, and just keep things as simple as possible. Hierarchies are great for govt, militaries, and companies, but only when kept to a minimum. The US was successful in WWII because the commanders set the goals and then let their sub-leaders get on with their jobs, allowing for creative, adaptive improvisation. Korean Airlines' cultural hierarchies almost got them delisted from Canada's airspace. Spiritual folks within their orgs each have different levels of development, but if someone believes they are "better" than another person, that's the ego. An enlightened individual is kind and respectful to everyone. At the same time, they always bear the truth without regard to people's ego-bruises and supposed slights. Those are what they are and are solely that person's responsibility to level-up from.

slifin 2y ago
There's a larger % of the population that you might expect that have no capability for empathy, let alone anything higher The structure is great for those people because then they can get their needs met without having to deal with ideas they do not understand like trust and mutual reciprocation or long-term relationships the structure is easy to exploit with no morals so we end up disproportionately rewarding these people That's why you can't just expect everyone to be respectful and for it to work
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  I didn't say I expect anything from anyone, but we all have the choice, with the very rare exception for those that are developmentally disabled and incapable of rationally choosing. For the vast majority of those of us who have the power to think and consult one's conscience, we can and do choose the course of our action. Over time, we can also choose to escape our ignorance and learn the ideals that facilitate humanity in our mostly mammalian body, and then choose to learn how to be better and then actualize being better. Very few of us have anything but a lame-ass excuse, usually falling back on one's cultural upbringing to make excuses for our deliberate, if unthinking, choices. The best "structure", as you put it, is to make empathy a major part of childhood education, teaching that we are all human beings, each differently endowed but worthy of respect to some degree. As well, we have to teach that we have to resist the inner urgings towards selfishness and ignorance in favor of willful action that will the benefit of the whole. But, no, I do not agree that most people cannot learn such a moral framework, and the proof is the simple fact that we are all living in groups, none of us being completely self-sufficient for all our human survival needs, not to mention those things that bring us entertainment and relaxation.
- dukeyukey 2y ago
  > There's a larger % of the population that you might expect that have no capability for empathy, let alone anything higher And another big % that purposefully surpress empathetic instincts because of other beliefs.
  - 2y ago

0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago

From the UN PDF: >These well-established and time-honoured rules allow nations and peoples from a wide range of cultures and values to conduct their activities with dignity in an environment devoid of frictions. Such animosity can easily arise when one of the parties concerned does not feel treated with respect. >... >Current protocol practices are rooted in history but evolve continuously. There is always a legitimate reason behind a protocol rule or practice. Makes a lot of sense to me. Training your diplomats in protocol is very cheap compared with going to war.