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On the other hand, Xbox consoles these days sell with a "free trial" of their online services that automatically starts charging after 3 months. It's at a minim

On the other hand, Xbox consoles these days sell with a "free trial" of their online services that automatically starts charging after 3 months. It's at a minimum a dark pattern. At worst? https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/06/20-million-ftc-settlement-addresses-microsoft-xbox-illegal-collection-kids-data-game-changer-coppa https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/06/20-millio...

vachina 2y ago
The entire modern Windows ecosystem is a dark pattern. Had to OOBE setup a Windows PC, it was an endless stream of nag prompts, all the way to the desktop. Extremely annoying to use.
shultays 2y ago
Isn't that what "free trial" means? If I am buying free trial, I would expect myself needing to manually cancel it if I am not happy
- happymellon 2y ago
  No it doesn't. A free trial implies that you can use a service for a limited period without cost. It's only because they have normalised it that you expect to get charged if you forget.
  - monooso 2y ago
    You _can_ use it for a minimal period without cost. As for the normalisation argument, if there's a common understanding that "free trial" means "X months free followed by being charged", then that's what free trial means.
    - happymellon 2y ago
      > if there's a common understanding Its only a common misunderstanding with these tech companies. If I had a free trial with a sports club, or many other things, they will not charge me at the end of the trial. They will ask me if I want to join. If I take a car for a trial drive, they won't bill me the entire price of a car if I forgot to mention explicitly that I don't want it after I return it.
- Adverblessly 2y ago
  To me that sounds like a regular subscription with a "first three months free" discount, not like a free trial.
  - orwin 2y ago
    Exactly. My ahme club do a 3 week free trial, nobody new is paying until the 4th week (and even then you have wiggle room), you can just stop showing up, nobody will charge you.

vachina 2y ago

The entire modern Windows ecosystem is a dark pattern. Had to OOBE setup a Windows PC, it was an endless stream of nag prompts, all the way to the desktop. Extremely annoying to use.

shultays 2y ago

Isn't that what "free trial" means? If I am buying free trial, I would expect myself needing to manually cancel it if I am not happy

happymellon 2y ago
No it doesn't. A free trial implies that you can use a service for a limited period without cost. It's only because they have normalised it that you expect to get charged if you forget.
- monooso 2y ago
  You _can_ use it for a minimal period without cost. As for the normalisation argument, if there's a common understanding that "free trial" means "X months free followed by being charged", then that's what free trial means.
  - happymellon 2y ago
    > if there's a common understanding Its only a common misunderstanding with these tech companies. If I had a free trial with a sports club, or many other things, they will not charge me at the end of the trial. They will ask me if I want to join. If I take a car for a trial drive, they won't bill me the entire price of a car if I forgot to mention explicitly that I don't want it after I return it.
Adverblessly 2y ago
To me that sounds like a regular subscription with a "first three months free" discount, not like a free trial.
- orwin 2y ago
  Exactly. My ahme club do a 3 week free trial, nobody new is paying until the 4th week (and even then you have wiggle room), you can just stop showing up, nobody will charge you.