4 ms·

There's a billion dollar price tag being punted around and you think the resulting development is going to be aimed at and priced to reduce a housing supply sho

There's a billion dollar price tag being punted around and you think the resulting development is going to be aimed at and priced to reduce a housing supply shortage? Are you by chance on the market to buy a bridge?

nothercastle 2y ago
Trump tower 2.0 London Edition?
refulgentis 2y ago
I know I'm supposed to say no, but...yes I do believe it. I have a proof, too long to be contained within the margins of this page, that when supply goes up, price goes down
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  Go for it. Econ 100 textbook bs about supply and demand are trivially dismissed by a casual examination of housing and rental prices in the US in gentrified areas. What happens when the real world intrudes on academic platitudes is rather straightforward: pricing for everything goes up and the folks who were struggling get pushed out. Nobody who couldn't afford housing in the market before the shift is served.
  - refulgentis 2y ago
    I'm more than open to reading anything about that! Literally anything! Most respectfully and deferentially, I don't think "more things available makes price goes down" is a platitude or textbook or academic thing! I must confess, the fact this Fat Tony logic and not some theory invented in an academic textbook ivory-tower divorced-from-reality impoverished-intellectual safe haven is why I cannot provide a proof: the note about the margin was an attempt to inject some levity, via a reference to Fermat!
    - forgetfreeman 2y ago
      > I'm more than open to reading anything about that! Literally anything! Great! Start paying attention to real estate and rental prices in areas near "mixed use" development projects and urban multi-story housing construction, literally the projects that are billed by politicians as addressing housing shortages and you'll find my point bore out pretty plainly. > I don't think "more things available makes price goes down" is a platitude or textbook or academic thing! It isn't in the context of bulk commodities and raw inputs where producers compete solely on volume. Housing is not a volume market and no incentives exist for developers or property owners to make it one. See also: RealPage sued for enabling market collusion in residential rental rates: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/23/feds-sue-software-company-rent-collusion-00176154 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/23/feds-sue-software-c...
      - refulgentis 2y ago
        Ah okay, you made it up :)
        forgetfreeman 2y ago
        Uh no, I'm watching it play out in realtime in local real estate markets. It's fucking with my retirement plans.
        refulgentis 2y ago
        I hate to be rude, but, whether or not your retirement plan is going to plan has nothing to do with whether more housing makes prices go up. I'm honestly kinda upset you didn't have anything backing up that idea. I genuinely expect better from HN, and genuinely believed that maybe I had missed something at 35, after an econ degree before promoting getting into programming. I wouldn't have given the benefit of the doubt on any other site, and certainly not if you weren't as well spoken as you are. I can't believe you're throwing out RealPage intros after sneering at me about entry level econ. Buddy I knew RealPage, intimately, years ago and nothing in the story has anything to say about prices always go up. In fact, the existence of the story requires the opposite
Sabinus 2y ago
Luxury apartments do reduce the housing shortage. Cashed up boomers can move out of the nice family home they've been living in since the kids left and upgrade/downsize. Building the high end and having people move up helps with the high cost of construction also.
- mikeyouse 2y ago
  The general phenomenon is well known to those who study this kind of thing, but yep, building housing of any price helps reduce costs overall: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filtering_(housing) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filtering_(housing)
  - nothercastle 2y ago
    Depends on if people live in it or buy as an investment and leave it vacant or air bb as often happens in London
    - mikeyouse 2y ago
      Not really since those people would otherwise some different existing property to do the same thing with.
      - nothercastle 2y ago
        I’m not going argue that that basic Econ does not indicate that this should help a bit with housing demand. The question is how much and is it really worth loosing a public institution for. The marginal utility for the general person of a public market seems higher than that of a couple extra housing units
runako 2y ago
They're saying "thousands of new homes." If they can build that many homes for a billion dollars, that doesn't sound like its' all luxury housing.

nothercastle 2y ago

Trump tower 2.0 London Edition?

refulgentis 2y ago

I know I'm supposed to say no, but...yes I do believe it. I have a proof, too long to be contained within the margins of this page, that when supply goes up, price goes down

forgetfreeman 2y ago
Go for it. Econ 100 textbook bs about supply and demand are trivially dismissed by a casual examination of housing and rental prices in the US in gentrified areas. What happens when the real world intrudes on academic platitudes is rather straightforward: pricing for everything goes up and the folks who were struggling get pushed out. Nobody who couldn't afford housing in the market before the shift is served.
- refulgentis 2y ago
  I'm more than open to reading anything about that! Literally anything! Most respectfully and deferentially, I don't think "more things available makes price goes down" is a platitude or textbook or academic thing! I must confess, the fact this Fat Tony logic and not some theory invented in an academic textbook ivory-tower divorced-from-reality impoverished-intellectual safe haven is why I cannot provide a proof: the note about the margin was an attempt to inject some levity, via a reference to Fermat!
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    > I'm more than open to reading anything about that! Literally anything! Great! Start paying attention to real estate and rental prices in areas near "mixed use" development projects and urban multi-story housing construction, literally the projects that are billed by politicians as addressing housing shortages and you'll find my point bore out pretty plainly. > I don't think "more things available makes price goes down" is a platitude or textbook or academic thing! It isn't in the context of bulk commodities and raw inputs where producers compete solely on volume. Housing is not a volume market and no incentives exist for developers or property owners to make it one. See also: RealPage sued for enabling market collusion in residential rental rates: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/23/feds-sue-software-company-rent-collusion-00176154 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/23/feds-sue-software-c...
    - refulgentis 2y ago
      Ah okay, you made it up :)
      - forgetfreeman 2y ago
        Uh no, I'm watching it play out in realtime in local real estate markets. It's fucking with my retirement plans.
        refulgentis 2y ago
        I hate to be rude, but, whether or not your retirement plan is going to plan has nothing to do with whether more housing makes prices go up. I'm honestly kinda upset you didn't have anything backing up that idea. I genuinely expect better from HN, and genuinely believed that maybe I had missed something at 35, after an econ degree before promoting getting into programming. I wouldn't have given the benefit of the doubt on any other site, and certainly not if you weren't as well spoken as you are. I can't believe you're throwing out RealPage intros after sneering at me about entry level econ. Buddy I knew RealPage, intimately, years ago and nothing in the story has anything to say about prices always go up. In fact, the existence of the story requires the opposite

Sabinus 2y ago

Luxury apartments do reduce the housing shortage. Cashed up boomers can move out of the nice family home they've been living in since the kids left and upgrade/downsize. Building the high end and having people move up helps with the high cost of construction also.

mikeyouse 2y ago
The general phenomenon is well known to those who study this kind of thing, but yep, building housing of any price helps reduce costs overall: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filtering_(housing) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filtering_(housing)
- nothercastle 2y ago
  Depends on if people live in it or buy as an investment and leave it vacant or air bb as often happens in London
  - mikeyouse 2y ago
    Not really since those people would otherwise some different existing property to do the same thing with.
    - nothercastle 2y ago
      I’m not going argue that that basic Econ does not indicate that this should help a bit with housing demand. The question is how much and is it really worth loosing a public institution for. The marginal utility for the general person of a public market seems higher than that of a couple extra housing units

runako 2y ago

They're saying "thousands of new homes." If they can build that many homes for a billion dollars, that doesn't sound like its' all luxury housing.