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Let’s be honest - we all know the “market share limitations” are just a construct to eliminate Tesla from eligibility, not something to actually help other auto

Let’s be honest - we all know the “market share limitations” are just a construct to eliminate Tesla from eligibility, not something to actually help other automakers - which would not make sense anyways since Tesla has a better product and is the only one manufacturing in CA. This is obvious political discrimination and it shouldn’t be legal. We need to change the law to treat political views as a protected trait, to protect individuals and organizations.

Larrikin 2y ago
Should it be more or less protected than race? Tesla as a company seems to think protected class doesn't matter. https://www.npr.org/2021/10/05/1043336212/tesla-racial-discrimination-lawsuit https://www.npr.org/2021/10/05/1043336212/tesla-racial-discr...
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > Should it be more or less protected than race? Equal. > Tesla as a company seems to think protected class doesn't matter. I don’t see evidence for this. Sure any examples of discrimination like those in the article are bad. Is it deserving of $137 million in punitive damages that are arbitrarily decided? I don’t think so. But regardless of that case, I am fairly certain most people in Tesla and Musk himself feel race should be a protected class.
  - yyuugg 2y ago
    Arbitrarily decided is how all judicial and jury decisions are made. They're all arbitrary. There are no objective court cases like this one. We have a justice system, it arbitrates. Sometimes those decisions are surprising. But like, using arbitrary in this way suggests you don't like the judicial apparatus generally.
  - Larrikin 2y ago
    Can you explain why systematic racism in one of the richest company's in the world isn't deserving of the amount of damages awarded and that the amount is arbitrary? Should the amount have been lower so they would effectively not feel it and feel emboldened to continue with their actions? Would you have been ok with a lower fine and jail time for anyone in the org chart that knew?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
_mlbt 2y ago
It's not the first time that California government officials have held Elon Musk's political beliefs against him and his companies... https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/10/california-reject-musk-spacex-00183371 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/10/california-reject-m... It's absolutely disgusting whether you agree with his politics or not. As Americans we're better than this.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  > concerns that all SpaceX launches would be considered military activity, shielding the company from having to acquire its own permits, even if military payloads aren’t being carried. If that's accurate then the way they're holding it against him is making him follow the existing rules. But maybe that's a smokescreen? I'm unsure how to judge that situation. But for the topic article, if he's going to be inside the group of people that are cutting federal EV subsidies, I don't think he gets to complain about not getting EV subsidies.
  - mquander 2y ago
    I think tax rates should be higher. So does that mean I should have to pay extra taxes by myself and the rates for everyone else should stay the same?
    - igetspam 2y ago
      Are you a billionaire?
  - engineer_22 2y ago
    EV subsidies were intended to backstop the EV supply chain buildup. EV subsidies should be retired when EVs are economically viable on their own merits. We have had EV subsidies for 16 years. In my opinion 16 years is long enough for the experiment, and it is an appropriate time to discuss the usefulness of EV subsidies going forward.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
yieldcrv 2y ago
The 14th amendment equal protection clause can be used here to invalidate that part of the law after it is passed, if the plaintiff can find evidence from lawmakers that the law was about singling out Tesla, as opposed to it being happenstance from the metrics in the proposal
lightedman 2y ago
"which would not make sense anyways since Tesla has a better product" I had a different experience. Watching a Cybertruck which had flat-bottomed itself in sand as my Subaru winched it out made me think more about getting an F-150 lightning.
- bagels 2y ago
  Not a Subaru?
  - nine_k 2y ago
    Do Subaru offer electric trucks? Both Cybertruck and F-150 are trucks, not cars or SUVs.
    - bagels 2y ago
      Well, the criteria seemed to be not getting stuck in sand is why I asked.
  - lightedman 2y ago
    I already have one, don't need two! Just got this one, to boot. Customized 2013 outback with rally off-road package (paddle shifters, better shocks, still same crummy articulation.) I was thinking more electric vehicle that can do off-roading. I'd love to see a small EV truck or wagon with its motor attached to an actual 4x4 transmission. Don't care if auto or manual (but no CVT please, I'm not entirely a fan of mine) but the slight loss of power and gentler acceleration of the tires actually helps when you're on stuff like sand. You don't want to instantly spin your wheels, even in tiny pulses. You want as even of a power profile as you want to stay on top and not dig yourself down like the Cybertruck did.
    - bagels 2y ago
      They don't have center diffs or transfer cases on electric vehicles because range would be harmed too much. Battery capacity is a real bottleneck that creates a lot of engineering challenges (must have an efficient drivetrain, efficient aero). Seems like they can program their way out of the lack of low gearing if they wanted too since you have good torque at low rpm with electric.
afavour 2y ago
Tesla have benefitted for years from their association with Musk. Deliberately so, their marketing has never been afraid to associate the two very closely when he’s perceived as a genius inventor, the real life Tony Stark, yadda yadda. It’s just come back to bite them. Specifically drawing a circle around “politics” seems like a very convenient opt-out clause. > We need to change the law to treat political views as a protected trait Just as soon as someone can define what “political views” are and aren’t, I guess? To choose an extreme example: if I’m a racist that’s bad but if I believe in the political concept of a whites-only ethnostate is that protected? It’s very, very difficult to define where “politics” starts and stops.
- kbelder 2y ago
  > if I’m a racist that’s bad but if I believe in the political concept of a whites-only ethnostate is that protected? Bad views are protected. That's the point of it. Not difficult.
  - afavour 2y ago
    So racists are a protected class in this world? I’m alright without, thanks.
    - kbelder 2y ago
      Those professing unpopular beliefs and belonging to unpopular religions were the very first 'protected class' listed in the constitution. Not really a 'class' though, since the protection applies to everybody.
      - afavour 2y ago
        So racism is just an “unpopular belief” now? Got it, got it. Still a no from me though, thanks.
bagels 2y ago
It's probably both? These kind of incentives were in place when the only player was Tesla.
root_axis 2y ago
> we all know the “market share limitations” are just a construct to eliminate Tesla from Based on what? > We need to change the law to treat political views as a protected trait, to protect individuals and organizations. Why would we want to do that? It's also totally impractical because everything is politicized.
tyronehed 2y ago
[dead]
Stratoscope 2y ago
> Tesla has a better product Isn't there room for a different "better product" for each individual? You may like a MacBook and I may prefer a ThinkPad. One is not better than the other, it depends on our individual needs. My Kia EV6 is a much better car for me than any Tesla. Just a few of the many reasons: Physical controls that are so much like my old gas Kia: A stalk for the lights. Another for the wipers. Plenty of buttons on the steering wheel that I can find by touch. And regen paddles like the gear shift paddles on some gas cars, so I can adjust the regen level without taking my eyes off the road. I only rarely have to use the touchscreen while driving. Dual displays, with essential driving information right in front of me, and "infotainment" functions on the center display. "Vegan suede" seats that feel like a high quality cloth seat and keep me cooler than a leather seat (vegan or not). Of course if a Tesla is a better car for you, I have no quarrel with that. I'm glad you found the best car for yourself, just as I have.
yyuugg 2y ago
[flagged]

Larrikin 2y ago

Should it be more or less protected than race? Tesla as a company seems to think protected class doesn't matter. https://www.npr.org/2021/10/05/1043336212/tesla-racial-discrimination-lawsuit https://www.npr.org/2021/10/05/1043336212/tesla-racial-discr...

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
> Should it be more or less protected than race? Equal. > Tesla as a company seems to think protected class doesn't matter. I don’t see evidence for this. Sure any examples of discrimination like those in the article are bad. Is it deserving of $137 million in punitive damages that are arbitrarily decided? I don’t think so. But regardless of that case, I am fairly certain most people in Tesla and Musk himself feel race should be a protected class.
- yyuugg 2y ago
  Arbitrarily decided is how all judicial and jury decisions are made. They're all arbitrary. There are no objective court cases like this one. We have a justice system, it arbitrates. Sometimes those decisions are surprising. But like, using arbitrary in this way suggests you don't like the judicial apparatus generally.
- Larrikin 2y ago
  Can you explain why systematic racism in one of the richest company's in the world isn't deserving of the amount of damages awarded and that the amount is arbitrary? Should the amount have been lower so they would effectively not feel it and feel emboldened to continue with their actions? Would you have been ok with a lower fine and jail time for anyone in the org chart that knew?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

_mlbt 2y ago

It's not the first time that California government officials have held Elon Musk's political beliefs against him and his companies... https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/10/california-reject-musk-spacex-00183371 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/10/california-reject-m... It's absolutely disgusting whether you agree with his politics or not. As Americans we're better than this.

Dylan16807 2y ago
> concerns that all SpaceX launches would be considered military activity, shielding the company from having to acquire its own permits, even if military payloads aren’t being carried. If that's accurate then the way they're holding it against him is making him follow the existing rules. But maybe that's a smokescreen? I'm unsure how to judge that situation. But for the topic article, if he's going to be inside the group of people that are cutting federal EV subsidies, I don't think he gets to complain about not getting EV subsidies.
- mquander 2y ago
  I think tax rates should be higher. So does that mean I should have to pay extra taxes by myself and the rates for everyone else should stay the same?
  - igetspam 2y ago
    Are you a billionaire?
- engineer_22 2y ago
  EV subsidies were intended to backstop the EV supply chain buildup. EV subsidies should be retired when EVs are economically viable on their own merits. We have had EV subsidies for 16 years. In my opinion 16 years is long enough for the experiment, and it is an appropriate time to discuss the usefulness of EV subsidies going forward.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

yieldcrv 2y ago

The 14th amendment equal protection clause can be used here to invalidate that part of the law after it is passed, if the plaintiff can find evidence from lawmakers that the law was about singling out Tesla, as opposed to it being happenstance from the metrics in the proposal

lightedman 2y ago

"which would not make sense anyways since Tesla has a better product" I had a different experience. Watching a Cybertruck which had flat-bottomed itself in sand as my Subaru winched it out made me think more about getting an F-150 lightning.

bagels 2y ago
Not a Subaru?
- nine_k 2y ago
  Do Subaru offer electric trucks? Both Cybertruck and F-150 are trucks, not cars or SUVs.
  - bagels 2y ago
    Well, the criteria seemed to be not getting stuck in sand is why I asked.
- lightedman 2y ago
  I already have one, don't need two! Just got this one, to boot. Customized 2013 outback with rally off-road package (paddle shifters, better shocks, still same crummy articulation.) I was thinking more electric vehicle that can do off-roading. I'd love to see a small EV truck or wagon with its motor attached to an actual 4x4 transmission. Don't care if auto or manual (but no CVT please, I'm not entirely a fan of mine) but the slight loss of power and gentler acceleration of the tires actually helps when you're on stuff like sand. You don't want to instantly spin your wheels, even in tiny pulses. You want as even of a power profile as you want to stay on top and not dig yourself down like the Cybertruck did.
  - bagels 2y ago
    They don't have center diffs or transfer cases on electric vehicles because range would be harmed too much. Battery capacity is a real bottleneck that creates a lot of engineering challenges (must have an efficient drivetrain, efficient aero). Seems like they can program their way out of the lack of low gearing if they wanted too since you have good torque at low rpm with electric.

afavour 2y ago

Tesla have benefitted for years from their association with Musk. Deliberately so, their marketing has never been afraid to associate the two very closely when he’s perceived as a genius inventor, the real life Tony Stark, yadda yadda. It’s just come back to bite them. Specifically drawing a circle around “politics” seems like a very convenient opt-out clause. > We need to change the law to treat political views as a protected trait Just as soon as someone can define what “political views” are and aren’t, I guess? To choose an extreme example: if I’m a racist that’s bad but if I believe in the political concept of a whites-only ethnostate is that protected? It’s very, very difficult to define where “politics” starts and stops.

kbelder 2y ago
> if I’m a racist that’s bad but if I believe in the political concept of a whites-only ethnostate is that protected? Bad views are protected. That's the point of it. Not difficult.
- afavour 2y ago
  So racists are a protected class in this world? I’m alright without, thanks.
  - kbelder 2y ago
    Those professing unpopular beliefs and belonging to unpopular religions were the very first 'protected class' listed in the constitution. Not really a 'class' though, since the protection applies to everybody.
    - afavour 2y ago
      So racism is just an “unpopular belief” now? Got it, got it. Still a no from me though, thanks.

bagels 2y ago

It's probably both? These kind of incentives were in place when the only player was Tesla.

root_axis 2y ago

> we all know the “market share limitations” are just a construct to eliminate Tesla from Based on what? > We need to change the law to treat political views as a protected trait, to protect individuals and organizations. Why would we want to do that? It's also totally impractical because everything is politicized.

tyronehed 2y ago

[dead]

Stratoscope 2y ago

> Tesla has a better product Isn't there room for a different "better product" for each individual? You may like a MacBook and I may prefer a ThinkPad. One is not better than the other, it depends on our individual needs. My Kia EV6 is a much better car for me than any Tesla. Just a few of the many reasons: Physical controls that are so much like my old gas Kia: A stalk for the lights. Another for the wipers. Plenty of buttons on the steering wheel that I can find by touch. And regen paddles like the gear shift paddles on some gas cars, so I can adjust the regen level without taking my eyes off the road. I only rarely have to use the touchscreen while driving. Dual displays, with essential driving information right in front of me, and "infotainment" functions on the center display. "Vegan suede" seats that feel like a high quality cloth seat and keep me cooler than a leather seat (vegan or not). Of course if a Tesla is a better car for you, I have no quarrel with that. I'm glad you found the best car for yourself, just as I have.

yyuugg 2y ago

[flagged]